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I cut my energy (electricity) consumption during this winter by about 40% compared to previous years with an investment of 4.5k EUR last summer including instal

by tpmx 4y ago

I cut my energy (electricity) consumption during this winter by about 40% compared to previous years with an investment of 4.5k EUR last summer including installation; I think I got a good deal. That got me: - Two very efficient and quiet Mitsubishi Electric "nordic climate" version air-to-air heat pumps (MSZ-LN35 and MSZ-LN25) replacing 20 year old much less efficient equivalents - those couldn't really keep up, so additional resistive heating was necessary before the upgrade. - One very affordable and relatively noisy Chinese noname air-to-air heat pump replacing resistive 10C maintenance heating in a side area. I ended up having a higher indoor average temperature in the house than in previous years. (I'm in Sweden.)

Scoundreller 4y ago
Was 4,5k EUR excluding VAT subsidies or other credits?
- tpmx 4y ago
  There is a general 30% tax deduction (up to a limit; coincidentally also about 4.5k EUR/yr/person) on craftsman work that takes place in a home that you own; this applies to the installation work. This deduction was about 500 EUR in total. I would have paid 5k EUR without this tax deduction. The installer handles the accounting/tax agency reporting - so the invoice was for 4.5k EUR, not 5k.
  - jaclaz 4y ago
    Yep, but you don't say how much (in EUR) is the 40% you saved. IF (say) that 40% is 1,000 EUR you (and partially your state) payed in advance for five years heating. And you were in a particular situation (already 20 years old heating that probably needed replaacement anyway), if you replaced that with new devices of the same type as the old ones you would have probably not spent so much less.
    - tpmx 4y ago
      I haven't done any savings calculation/break-even forecast. The electricity prices are very volatile.
      - jaclaz 4y ago
        I just wanted to point out that you were in a particular situation (obsolete existing plant probably needing replacement anyway at a possibly not too different cost) + state incentives (even if only 30% of the man hours) and you had the money to invest. Usually the break even point should be in the 5 or more years range (unless there are more substantial state incentives) for a "plain" replacement (i.e. with a working furnace + conditioner replaced by a heat pump). Anecdotally, a couple of years ago (in a shop, not a house, but the reasoning should be the same) I replaced a gas furnace (that was to be replaced anyway) and an air conditioner (that also was likely to fail being old enough) with a new heat pump. Both had a heat exchanger and heated/refreshed water that circulated in a few fan-coils, so there was in practice no need of masonry or hydraulic work besides replacing the (external) units. Replacing them with a new gas furnace + new conditioning unit was quoted around 4,000 Euro, whilst the new heat pump was quoted around 10,500 Euro, at the time it was possible to have 65% state incentive (directly credited by the supplier), so I paid only around 3,700 Euro, i.e. roughly the same as replacing the old units with the same ones instead of using the new technology. Without this (very substantial) incentive I calculated that it would have taken a little less than 6 years to get even at a projected saving of around 1,100 Euro/year.

by tpmx 4y ago

Scoundreller 4y ago

Was 4,5k EUR excluding VAT subsidies or other credits?

tpmx 4y ago
There is a general 30% tax deduction (up to a limit; coincidentally also about 4.5k EUR/yr/person) on craftsman work that takes place in a home that you own; this applies to the installation work. This deduction was about 500 EUR in total. I would have paid 5k EUR without this tax deduction. The installer handles the accounting/tax agency reporting - so the invoice was for 4.5k EUR, not 5k.
- jaclaz 4y ago
  Yep, but you don't say how much (in EUR) is the 40% you saved. IF (say) that 40% is 1,000 EUR you (and partially your state) payed in advance for five years heating. And you were in a particular situation (already 20 years old heating that probably needed replaacement anyway), if you replaced that with new devices of the same type as the old ones you would have probably not spent so much less.
  - tpmx 4y ago
    I haven't done any savings calculation/break-even forecast. The electricity prices are very volatile.
    - jaclaz 4y ago
      I just wanted to point out that you were in a particular situation (obsolete existing plant probably needing replacement anyway at a possibly not too different cost) + state incentives (even if only 30% of the man hours) and you had the money to invest. Usually the break even point should be in the 5 or more years range (unless there are more substantial state incentives) for a "plain" replacement (i.e. with a working furnace + conditioner replaced by a heat pump). Anecdotally, a couple of years ago (in a shop, not a house, but the reasoning should be the same) I replaced a gas furnace (that was to be replaced anyway) and an air conditioner (that also was likely to fail being old enough) with a new heat pump. Both had a heat exchanger and heated/refreshed water that circulated in a few fan-coils, so there was in practice no need of masonry or hydraulic work besides replacing the (external) units. Replacing them with a new gas furnace + new conditioning unit was quoted around 4,000 Euro, whilst the new heat pump was quoted around 10,500 Euro, at the time it was possible to have 65% state incentive (directly credited by the supplier), so I paid only around 3,700 Euro, i.e. roughly the same as replacing the old units with the same ones instead of using the new technology. Without this (very substantial) incentive I calculated that it would have taken a little less than 6 years to get even at a projected saving of around 1,100 Euro/year.