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I think after you read and watch NotJustBikes and Strong Towns you understand that American roads are dangerous by design. It's not police that will fix these s

I think after you read and watch NotJustBikes and Strong Towns you understand that American roads are dangerous by design. It's not police that will fix these structural problems. I always hesitate to blame drivers because if you were to put these same American drivers into European cities like Copenhagen - my prediction would be that they become "safe" drivers. For example a well understood engineering concept is that narrow roads produce slower speeds and wider and more lanes produce faster speeds. Instead of putting up a sign that says "Maximum 30mph", which "requires" police to enforce, you could make the road so narrow that drivers only feel safe driving at 30mph.

thomastjeffery 4y ago
The worst part is that law enforcement focuses on minimizing the intensity of accidents more than the number of accidents. This seems like a great idea until you see past the smoke to the hole in your foot. The main focus has been speed. Speed increases force geometrically! Speed does not however, significantly increase the likelihood of a traffic collision. The reality is that speed limits describe how a road is shaped. They provide drivers with a reference for how they can expect their vehicle to perform on that road. They don't tell drivers anything about their vehicle, or their own skill level. It's painfully obvious that the effect on behavior will be for drivers to find a comfortable threshold relative to a speed limit, their vehicle, and their driving ability. None of this can be measured or enforced by police. But speeding is illegal! You just have to drive the speed limit, or you are dangerous, and need to be stopped! What a damned lie. Either you accept this narrative, or you realize it has no basis in reality. A small, but significant, percentage of drivers have accepted it. Everyone else is now their sworn enemy, and vice versa. The resulting behavior is conflict. Guess what that gets us? More collisions. We need law enforcement to take a diplomatic role. Focus on resolving conflict, and we should be able to make driving safer for everyone, and even strengthen relations between police and citizens.
prirun 4y ago
> For example a well understood engineering concept is that narrow roads produce slower speeds and wider and more lanes produce faster speeds. Instead of putting up a sign that says "Maximum 30mph", which "requires" police to enforce, you could make the road so narrow that drivers only feel safe driving at 30mph. We have an older bridge connecting Louisville, KY and Jeffersonville, IN. The speed limit is 35, the lanes are very narrow, and yet people still regularly go 50. I was hit while stopped at the end of that bridge in 2021 by a distracted driver, likely on her phone, who was going so fast, she wrecked into me and the 2 cars in front of me and her car did a 180 and ended up facing the opposite direction in opposing traffic. IMO a key safety measure would be "if you are in an accident while on your phone, you lose your license for 12 months times the percent at fault.
- Scoundreller 4y ago
  Why special penalties for legislatively prescribed distractions? Shouldn’t the nasty accident be enough to convict them of being a bad driver?
  - rolenthedeep 4y ago
    Shouldn't fear of horrible, gruesome, painful death deter anyone from using their phone in the car ever? People simply don't work like that.
- michael_vo 4y ago
  IMO a key safety measure would be "if you are in an accident while on your phone, you lose your license for 12 months times the percent at fault. Will this stop drivers from using cell phones? This is a post event solution. This solution might work but requires police, judges, witnesses, cameras, and many components to properly implement. One way that Amsterdam or Copenhagen would fix this is to reduce the number of lanes. They purposely remove lanes (even when the street can accommodate extra ones). They also introduce shrubbery on the side of the road that blocks human vision. This is because if you can't see past the corner you slow down as you approach. Another solution is changing the texture of the road. We naturally drive slower on cobblestone versus smooth asphalt. I've also seen speed bumps or even just a slightly raised smoother bump on a highway/road in honolulu and in colombia to slow drivers down. There are many well understood road engineering solutions to use.

thomastjeffery 4y ago

The worst part is that law enforcement focuses on minimizing the intensity of accidents more than the number of accidents. This seems like a great idea until you see past the smoke to the hole in your foot. The main focus has been speed. Speed increases force geometrically! Speed does not however, significantly increase the likelihood of a traffic collision. The reality is that speed limits describe how a road is shaped. They provide drivers with a reference for how they can expect their vehicle to perform on that road. They don't tell drivers anything about their vehicle, or their own skill level. It's painfully obvious that the effect on behavior will be for drivers to find a comfortable threshold relative to a speed limit, their vehicle, and their driving ability. None of this can be measured or enforced by police. But speeding is illegal! You just have to drive the speed limit, or you are dangerous, and need to be stopped! What a damned lie. Either you accept this narrative, or you realize it has no basis in reality. A small, but significant, percentage of drivers have accepted it. Everyone else is now their sworn enemy, and vice versa. The resulting behavior is conflict. Guess what that gets us? More collisions. We need law enforcement to take a diplomatic role. Focus on resolving conflict, and we should be able to make driving safer for everyone, and even strengthen relations between police and citizens.

prirun 4y ago

> For example a well understood engineering concept is that narrow roads produce slower speeds and wider and more lanes produce faster speeds. Instead of putting up a sign that says "Maximum 30mph", which "requires" police to enforce, you could make the road so narrow that drivers only feel safe driving at 30mph. We have an older bridge connecting Louisville, KY and Jeffersonville, IN. The speed limit is 35, the lanes are very narrow, and yet people still regularly go 50. I was hit while stopped at the end of that bridge in 2021 by a distracted driver, likely on her phone, who was going so fast, she wrecked into me and the 2 cars in front of me and her car did a 180 and ended up facing the opposite direction in opposing traffic. IMO a key safety measure would be "if you are in an accident while on your phone, you lose your license for 12 months times the percent at fault.

Scoundreller 4y ago
Why special penalties for legislatively prescribed distractions? Shouldn’t the nasty accident be enough to convict them of being a bad driver?
- rolenthedeep 4y ago
  Shouldn't fear of horrible, gruesome, painful death deter anyone from using their phone in the car ever? People simply don't work like that.
michael_vo 4y ago
IMO a key safety measure would be "if you are in an accident while on your phone, you lose your license for 12 months times the percent at fault. Will this stop drivers from using cell phones? This is a post event solution. This solution might work but requires police, judges, witnesses, cameras, and many components to properly implement. One way that Amsterdam or Copenhagen would fix this is to reduce the number of lanes. They purposely remove lanes (even when the street can accommodate extra ones). They also introduce shrubbery on the side of the road that blocks human vision. This is because if you can't see past the corner you slow down as you approach. Another solution is changing the texture of the road. We naturally drive slower on cobblestone versus smooth asphalt. I've also seen speed bumps or even just a slightly raised smoother bump on a highway/road in honolulu and in colombia to slow drivers down. There are many well understood road engineering solutions to use.