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Meta does stellar work in AI. I’m quite certain the recent DMCAs were a case of the left hand not knowing what the right hand is doing. This model is open sourc

Meta does stellar work in AI. I’m quite certain the recent DMCAs were a case of the left hand not knowing what the right hand is doing. This model is open source in every sense of the word, and they’ve now released two impactful models in the span of a month. This tweet chain is a pretty great overview: https://twitter.com/drjimfan/status/1643647849824161792?s=61&t=jQbmCk1JqL7depzFWJNuPA https://twitter.com/drjimfan/status/1643647849824161792?s=61...

kamranjon 4y ago
Are the weights open source?
- Name_Chawps 4y ago
  The weights are not "source".
  - sokoloff 4y ago
    That is likely true in the most pedantic sense, but in practice, if I create an algorithm that works by using a series of matrix transformations against a set of carefully chosen (read: "trained") matrices and I open-source only the matrix manipulation code but not the specially chosen matrices, I think there's a fair argument to say that I haven't open-sourced the entire algorithm. In the phrase "the model is open-source in every sense of the word", that, IMO, must include the weights.
    - Name_Chawps 4y ago
      I'd be curious to know if you think open source companies should share all of their database records too.
      - sokoloff 4y ago
        I think of two broad categories of database records: transactional data (data created while running the system) and domain data (data created during development and shipped to production as part of the release process). The former type of data I wouldn't expect to ever be open-sourced. The latter type might or might not be, depending on the intent of open-sourcing the related system. If I created a human language translation system that used a SQL database to store the dictionary (domain) data and claimed the system was open-source without shipping the domain data, I think people would rightly say that the system was not fully opened.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
  - flangola7 4y ago
    The actual source code is not important. The source code can be printed on a single A4 page, the valuable final product is the weights you get after running the code for fifty million dollars of compute time.
    - Name_Chawps 4y ago
      If they start claiming they're "open weights" or "open final product" I'll be up in arms.
      - sokoloff 4y ago
        They are claiming that. They are also delivering on that claim: https://github.com/facebookresearch/segment-anything#model-checkpoints https://github.com/facebookresearch/segment-anything#model-c...
  - jtsiskin 4y ago
    If I autogenerated a huge amount of C based on the weights, that added/multipled variables the same way the existing code+weights does, then would it be “source”?
  - dragonwriter 4y ago
    The weights seem to be under the same license, just distributed separately because it doesn’t make sense for the giant binary artifacts of training to be part of the source repository.
- woopwoop 4y ago
  Yes
  - lordswork 4y ago
    Where? From the article: >Currently, the code (without the weights) is available on GitHub
    - wongarsu 4y ago
      In the README on said github https://github.com/facebookresearch/segment-anything#model-checkpoints https://github.com/facebookresearch/segment-anything#model-c...
      - deleted 4y ago
        [deleted]
    - dragonwriter 4y ago
      The weights are linked from the readme; avoiding large binary resources in GitHub repositories is fairly normal.
- polygamous_bat 4y ago
  Right here: https://github.com/facebookresearch/segment-anything#model-checkpoints https://github.com/facebookresearch/segment-anything#model-c...
  - neuronexmachina 4y ago
    For anyone curious about file sizes for the PyTorch models: * default/sam_vit_h_4b8939.pth: 2.4GB * sam_vit_l_0b3195.pth: 1.2GB * sam_vit_b_01ec64.pth: 358MB
KaiserPro 4y ago
> left hand not knowing what the right hand is doing. No it was trying to stop abuse. Unlike OpenAI, facebook can't get away with releasing a thing that is more than capable of making up libellous, racist or any other type of illegal or PR decimating thing. The point of the really restrictive release was to at least try to limit that kind of issue. Fortunatly for meta, most people who use the weights aren't the end user with a large twitter following, so the risk is (now) low.
NelsonMinar 4y ago
The Economist had a recent overview of the AI competitive landscape that highlights Meta's outsize role thanks to their embrace of openness. https://www.economist.com/business/2023/03/26/big-tech-and-the-pursuit-of-ai-dominance https://www.economist.com/business/2023/03/26/big-tech-and-t...
- kristopolous 4y ago
  They're well on their way to yahoo'ing themselves - valuable and significant software contributions for a platform nobody is using.
lacker 4y ago
I agree, Meta's work in AI has been really impressive, and it's encouraging how they are open-sourcing so much. It's funny, back in the 90s I disliked Microsoft and thought they were inherently culturally opposed to open source. But big corporations really just follow their business incentives when it comes to open source. It's not like Meta "loves to be open". But they would hate a world where all the powerful AI development happened on one of the big clouds. Imagine if every researchers used some closed-source API from Google or Azure or AWS. Meta would try to hire some AI people, and they'd be like, ugh if we take the job we have to use this weird Facebook-specific thing. (<cough>Flow</cough>) So, supporting PyTorch and providing open source models is just a good business strategy for Meta. I'm glad to see it.
- kouteiheika 4y ago
  > I agree, Meta's work in AI has been really impressive, and it's encouraging how they are open-sourcing so much. My usual reaction to anything Facebook releases is "yawn, they released yet another model that is practically useless because it's released under a non-commercial license", but I'm pleasantly surprised that this one seems to be actually liberally licensed! Hopefully this continues into the future.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
- greeny7373 4y ago
  [flagged]
- tomcam 4y ago
  I’m glad Microsoft is open sourcing a lot of things. I have never, ever seen a convincing business case for their doing so, however. Not your opinion. A compelling business case.
  - SimonPStevens 4y ago
    The business case for open sourcing dev tooling is that more developers will use them and build on them and that brings more people to your platforms.

kamranjon 4y ago

Are the weights open source?

Name_Chawps 4y ago
The weights are not "source".
- sokoloff 4y ago
  That is likely true in the most pedantic sense, but in practice, if I create an algorithm that works by using a series of matrix transformations against a set of carefully chosen (read: "trained") matrices and I open-source only the matrix manipulation code but not the specially chosen matrices, I think there's a fair argument to say that I haven't open-sourced the entire algorithm. In the phrase "the model is open-source in every sense of the word", that, IMO, must include the weights.
  - Name_Chawps 4y ago
    I'd be curious to know if you think open source companies should share all of their database records too.
    - sokoloff 4y ago
      I think of two broad categories of database records: transactional data (data created while running the system) and domain data (data created during development and shipped to production as part of the release process). The former type of data I wouldn't expect to ever be open-sourced. The latter type might or might not be, depending on the intent of open-sourcing the related system. If I created a human language translation system that used a SQL database to store the dictionary (domain) data and claimed the system was open-source without shipping the domain data, I think people would rightly say that the system was not fully opened.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- flangola7 4y ago
  The actual source code is not important. The source code can be printed on a single A4 page, the valuable final product is the weights you get after running the code for fifty million dollars of compute time.
  - Name_Chawps 4y ago
    If they start claiming they're "open weights" or "open final product" I'll be up in arms.
    - sokoloff 4y ago
      They are claiming that. They are also delivering on that claim: https://github.com/facebookresearch/segment-anything#model-checkpoints https://github.com/facebookresearch/segment-anything#model-c...
- jtsiskin 4y ago
  If I autogenerated a huge amount of C based on the weights, that added/multipled variables the same way the existing code+weights does, then would it be “source”?
- dragonwriter 4y ago
  The weights seem to be under the same license, just distributed separately because it doesn’t make sense for the giant binary artifacts of training to be part of the source repository.
woopwoop 4y ago
Yes
- lordswork 4y ago
  Where? From the article: >Currently, the code (without the weights) is available on GitHub
  - wongarsu 4y ago
    In the README on said github https://github.com/facebookresearch/segment-anything#model-checkpoints https://github.com/facebookresearch/segment-anything#model-c...
    - deleted 4y ago
      [deleted]
  - dragonwriter 4y ago
    The weights are linked from the readme; avoiding large binary resources in GitHub repositories is fairly normal.
polygamous_bat 4y ago
Right here: https://github.com/facebookresearch/segment-anything#model-checkpoints https://github.com/facebookresearch/segment-anything#model-c...
- neuronexmachina 4y ago
  For anyone curious about file sizes for the PyTorch models: * default/sam_vit_h_4b8939.pth: 2.4GB * sam_vit_l_0b3195.pth: 1.2GB * sam_vit_b_01ec64.pth: 358MB

KaiserPro 4y ago

> left hand not knowing what the right hand is doing. No it was trying to stop abuse. Unlike OpenAI, facebook can't get away with releasing a thing that is more than capable of making up libellous, racist or any other type of illegal or PR decimating thing. The point of the really restrictive release was to at least try to limit that kind of issue. Fortunatly for meta, most people who use the weights aren't the end user with a large twitter following, so the risk is (now) low.

NelsonMinar 4y ago

The Economist had a recent overview of the AI competitive landscape that highlights Meta's outsize role thanks to their embrace of openness. https://www.economist.com/business/2023/03/26/big-tech-and-the-pursuit-of-ai-dominance https://www.economist.com/business/2023/03/26/big-tech-and-t...

kristopolous 4y ago
They're well on their way to yahoo'ing themselves - valuable and significant software contributions for a platform nobody is using.

lacker 4y ago

I agree, Meta's work in AI has been really impressive, and it's encouraging how they are open-sourcing so much. It's funny, back in the 90s I disliked Microsoft and thought they were inherently culturally opposed to open source. But big corporations really just follow their business incentives when it comes to open source. It's not like Meta "loves to be open". But they would hate a world where all the powerful AI development happened on one of the big clouds. Imagine if every researchers used some closed-source API from Google or Azure or AWS. Meta would try to hire some AI people, and they'd be like, ugh if we take the job we have to use this weird Facebook-specific thing. (<cough>Flow</cough>) So, supporting PyTorch and providing open source models is just a good business strategy for Meta. I'm glad to see it.

kouteiheika 4y ago
> I agree, Meta's work in AI has been really impressive, and it's encouraging how they are open-sourcing so much. My usual reaction to anything Facebook releases is "yawn, they released yet another model that is practically useless because it's released under a non-commercial license", but I'm pleasantly surprised that this one seems to be actually liberally licensed! Hopefully this continues into the future.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
greeny7373 4y ago
[flagged]
tomcam 4y ago
I’m glad Microsoft is open sourcing a lot of things. I have never, ever seen a convincing business case for their doing so, however. Not your opinion. A compelling business case.
- SimonPStevens 4y ago
  The business case for open sourcing dev tooling is that more developers will use them and build on them and that brings more people to your platforms.