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To me, Obama is a half-black half-white, non-practicing Muslim - not that I think him any lesser for it. When a fully black or fully devout Muslim candidate win

To me, Obama is a half-black half-white, non-practicing Muslim - not that I think him any lesser for it. When a fully black or fully devout Muslim candidate wins the election, that would be very interesting. It is not fitting to congratulate Obama on the race card just because he's different to his predecessors.

jimbokun 18y ago
Where by "non-practicing Muslim" you mean "Christian."
- deleted 18y ago
  [deleted]
  - yummyfajitas 18y ago
    Nonsense. Islam is evangelical; if you follow the 5 tenets, you are Muslim regardless of lineage. This is the same rule as most variants of Christianity, including the one Obama practices.
  - jerf 18y ago
    American culture does not accept that, and I side with American culture on this one. A man is what he chooses to be, not what his parents were. That way lies social tyranny. (Social tyranny isn't talked about much in America since it doesn't come up much, since we don't believe in it. For a real-world example, I point you at the caste system.) I don't particularly like Obama, but I see no evidence that he has engaged in any particularly Muslim activities as an adult.
    - adrianwaj 18y ago
      Social Tyranny is different to spiritual disposition, which is an issue that is being raised in this thread (even though my original comment was about the appropriateness of paying homage to someone not 100% black as though he were - not that skin color or even religion should be such an issue) but rather one's spiritual disposition, which cannot just be ignored in a person: it shapes their thinking and overall vibe.
      - SwellJoe 18y ago
        even though my original comment was about the appropriateness of paying homage to someone not 100% black as though he were What does "100% black" mean? I have reason to believe I have some black folks in my family tree three generations back. Does that make me 6.25% black and 93.75% white? A lot of your comments in this thread are being voted down, a lot, which I don't think is entirely useful. You have opinions and thought processes that I find interesting...I simply don't understand them, and I'm trying to. What is it you're trying to say? Are you saying that Obama thinks like a Muslim because some of his relatives are Muslim? That he's thinks half-black/half-white, whatever that means? Are we talking about racial/ancestral memory here? I'm confused. Folks seem to think you're being racist and intolerant, but I'm not sure that's what you're trying to say. But I can't ferret out exactly what it is you are trying to say.
        adrianwaj 18y ago
        I am trying to ferret out the truth: just as you are with my comments. Basically, I think my main concern is with people who were born and raised as children in the USA (not raised in Indonesia and Hawaii [well Hawaii is USA]) to two black parents and very poor in a poor neighbourhood. Barack shouldn't represent that stereotype, but people credit him for it and energize his persona on those sympathies - to the detriment of those who really come from such a background. edit: I might add that really going beyond race is saying: "We can look at the candidate's policies regardless of the candidate's color or religion." ...instead of being tainted by the color or religion of a candidate as an automatic promoter or detractor of proposed policies. The downmodding of my comments borders on extreme political correctness and censorship. It's not a good way to head. I've said nothing unreasonable, racist or irrelevant.
        SwellJoe 18y ago
        Barack shouldn't represent that stereotype, but people credit him for it and energize his persona on those sympathies So, Cuban's actual words, in the blog post we are all discussing, that I guess you're referring to were: "In a single day of voting, our amazing country once again reinvigorated the dream that any child in this country, no matter what circumstances they are born into, can grow up to be anything they want, including President of the United States." I'm not seeing anything about two black parents and being very poor in a poor neighborhood anywhere in the blog post. I didn't take the post to mean, "He was an inner city gangster and he became president, so put down your guns and drugs and go run for state senate!!!111!!" I took it to mean exactly what he said, that Obama being elected president is a great way to show a kid that they can grow up to be anything they want, and that America won't limit them based on the color of their skin or whether they grew up without the benefits of two wealthy, married, parents and a private school education (because Obama clearly does have much darker skin than any of our prior presidents, though we have had a few presidents with black folks in their family tree, even if it doesn't get talked about much). He is "black" by the definition that matters in this context: The definition that racists follow, since racism is the barrier we're talking about. He looks black, so he is black to the Klan and anybody else that holds that sort of philosophy. to the detriment of those who really come from such a background How is it to the detriment of anyone?
- adrianwaj 18y ago
  Not really. More specifically, I'd say a "non-practicing Muslim, practicing as a Christian." Or rather, now he is apparently practicing as a Christian, and was thus previously for 20 years via Pastor Wright whilst also being a Muslim Apostate. I take my viewpoint whereby just as Jews are said to receive there religious status through the mother (whether they like it or not) Muslims are said to receive it through the father. As an analogy: Michael Jackson may look white .... but he started off black. He may or may not be in denial about this fact, just as his fans may or may not acknowledge it too. Some here on this forum may have been misled or duped (either willingly or via manipulation) on the notions now discussed. "In sum, Muslims puzzle over Obama's present religious status. They resist his self-identification as a Christian while they assume a baby born to a Muslim father and named "Hussein" began life a Muslim. Should Obama become president, differences in Muslim and American views of religious affiliation will create problems." http://www.jewishworldreview.com/0808/pipes082508.php3 http://www.jewishworldreview.com/0808/pipes082508.php3
ibsulon 18y ago
Except that he's explicitly Christian, not Muslim.
- adrianwaj 18y ago
  Explicitly a Reverend Wright 'God Damn America' type Christianity, who Obama has since distanced himself, and if so, does that mean Obama is still a Christian, or did that go when he distanced himself from Wright?
  - ibsulon 18y ago
    As an atheist, I find Jeremiah Wright no fundamentally different than John Hagee, for one example. Pastors say controversial things to rile up a crowd - it's part of their job. Further, his comments are biblically defensible in the context of Jeremiah, Joel and other prophets who decried the treatment of the "widow and the orphan." http://www.newsweek.com/id/135385 http://www.newsweek.com/id/135385 for the underreported Hagee controversy.
- jonas_b 18y ago
  I liked Colin Powells take on that one: "I'm also troubled by not what senator McCain says, but what members of the party say - and it is permitted to be said - such things as "you know that Obama is a muslim". The correct answer is that he's not a muslim, he's a christian, he's always been a christian. But the reallyright answer is: what if he is? Is there something wrong with being a muslim in this country? The answer is no. That is not America. Is there something wrong with some 7 year old muslim american kid believing he or she can be president?"
  - olefoo 18y ago
    I think it more likely that Americans would elect a Muslim than an atheist. We still have a long ways to go in overcoming our prejudices.
- tdavis 18y ago
  Really? I thought he was Muslim (not that I follow politics). Him being Christian is just downright boring.
aaronblohowiak 18y ago
How do you figure he is a non-practicing Muslim? http://urbanlegends.about.com/library/bl_barack_obama_muslim.htm http://urbanlegends.about.com/library/bl_barack_obama_muslim... Obama is not responsible for the change in mainstream american views on race, but he is commendable for how he has (mostly not) approached race as a political topic in his campaign.
swilliams 18y ago
Others have already said it, but to quote Mr. Obama directly: "As a starting point, it means I believe in [sic] that Jesus Christ died for my sins and that I am redeemed through him." http://rickwarrennews.com/transcript/civil_forum_transcript-02.txt http://rickwarrennews.com/transcript/civil_forum_transcript-...
- adrianwaj 18y ago
  This would carry more weight with me if he weren't a politician. Let's hope he practices what he preaches.
adrianwaj 18y ago
Wow, for an apparently worthless comment, it sure has generated a lot of discussion!

jimbokun 18y ago

Where by "non-practicing Muslim" you mean "Christian."

deleted 18y ago
[deleted]
- yummyfajitas 18y ago
  Nonsense. Islam is evangelical; if you follow the 5 tenets, you are Muslim regardless of lineage. This is the same rule as most variants of Christianity, including the one Obama practices.
- jerf 18y ago
  American culture does not accept that, and I side with American culture on this one. A man is what he chooses to be, not what his parents were. That way lies social tyranny. (Social tyranny isn't talked about much in America since it doesn't come up much, since we don't believe in it. For a real-world example, I point you at the caste system.) I don't particularly like Obama, but I see no evidence that he has engaged in any particularly Muslim activities as an adult.
  - adrianwaj 18y ago
    Social Tyranny is different to spiritual disposition, which is an issue that is being raised in this thread (even though my original comment was about the appropriateness of paying homage to someone not 100% black as though he were - not that skin color or even religion should be such an issue) but rather one's spiritual disposition, which cannot just be ignored in a person: it shapes their thinking and overall vibe.
    - SwellJoe 18y ago
      even though my original comment was about the appropriateness of paying homage to someone not 100% black as though he were What does "100% black" mean? I have reason to believe I have some black folks in my family tree three generations back. Does that make me 6.25% black and 93.75% white? A lot of your comments in this thread are being voted down, a lot, which I don't think is entirely useful. You have opinions and thought processes that I find interesting...I simply don't understand them, and I'm trying to. What is it you're trying to say? Are you saying that Obama thinks like a Muslim because some of his relatives are Muslim? That he's thinks half-black/half-white, whatever that means? Are we talking about racial/ancestral memory here? I'm confused. Folks seem to think you're being racist and intolerant, but I'm not sure that's what you're trying to say. But I can't ferret out exactly what it is you are trying to say.
      - adrianwaj 18y ago
        I am trying to ferret out the truth: just as you are with my comments. Basically, I think my main concern is with people who were born and raised as children in the USA (not raised in Indonesia and Hawaii [well Hawaii is USA]) to two black parents and very poor in a poor neighbourhood. Barack shouldn't represent that stereotype, but people credit him for it and energize his persona on those sympathies - to the detriment of those who really come from such a background. edit: I might add that really going beyond race is saying: "We can look at the candidate's policies regardless of the candidate's color or religion." ...instead of being tainted by the color or religion of a candidate as an automatic promoter or detractor of proposed policies. The downmodding of my comments borders on extreme political correctness and censorship. It's not a good way to head. I've said nothing unreasonable, racist or irrelevant.
        SwellJoe 18y ago
        Barack shouldn't represent that stereotype, but people credit him for it and energize his persona on those sympathies So, Cuban's actual words, in the blog post we are all discussing, that I guess you're referring to were: "In a single day of voting, our amazing country once again reinvigorated the dream that any child in this country, no matter what circumstances they are born into, can grow up to be anything they want, including President of the United States." I'm not seeing anything about two black parents and being very poor in a poor neighborhood anywhere in the blog post. I didn't take the post to mean, "He was an inner city gangster and he became president, so put down your guns and drugs and go run for state senate!!!111!!" I took it to mean exactly what he said, that Obama being elected president is a great way to show a kid that they can grow up to be anything they want, and that America won't limit them based on the color of their skin or whether they grew up without the benefits of two wealthy, married, parents and a private school education (because Obama clearly does have much darker skin than any of our prior presidents, though we have had a few presidents with black folks in their family tree, even if it doesn't get talked about much). He is "black" by the definition that matters in this context: The definition that racists follow, since racism is the barrier we're talking about. He looks black, so he is black to the Klan and anybody else that holds that sort of philosophy. to the detriment of those who really come from such a background How is it to the detriment of anyone?
adrianwaj 18y ago
Not really. More specifically, I'd say a "non-practicing Muslim, practicing as a Christian." Or rather, now he is apparently practicing as a Christian, and was thus previously for 20 years via Pastor Wright whilst also being a Muslim Apostate. I take my viewpoint whereby just as Jews are said to receive there religious status through the mother (whether they like it or not) Muslims are said to receive it through the father. As an analogy: Michael Jackson may look white .... but he started off black. He may or may not be in denial about this fact, just as his fans may or may not acknowledge it too. Some here on this forum may have been misled or duped (either willingly or via manipulation) on the notions now discussed. "In sum, Muslims puzzle over Obama's present religious status. They resist his self-identification as a Christian while they assume a baby born to a Muslim father and named "Hussein" began life a Muslim. Should Obama become president, differences in Muslim and American views of religious affiliation will create problems." http://www.jewishworldreview.com/0808/pipes082508.php3 http://www.jewishworldreview.com/0808/pipes082508.php3

ibsulon 18y ago

Except that he's explicitly Christian, not Muslim.

adrianwaj 18y ago
Explicitly a Reverend Wright 'God Damn America' type Christianity, who Obama has since distanced himself, and if so, does that mean Obama is still a Christian, or did that go when he distanced himself from Wright?
- ibsulon 18y ago
  As an atheist, I find Jeremiah Wright no fundamentally different than John Hagee, for one example. Pastors say controversial things to rile up a crowd - it's part of their job. Further, his comments are biblically defensible in the context of Jeremiah, Joel and other prophets who decried the treatment of the "widow and the orphan." http://www.newsweek.com/id/135385 http://www.newsweek.com/id/135385 for the underreported Hagee controversy.
jonas_b 18y ago
I liked Colin Powells take on that one: "I'm also troubled by not what senator McCain says, but what members of the party say - and it is permitted to be said - such things as "you know that Obama is a muslim". The correct answer is that he's not a muslim, he's a christian, he's always been a christian. But the reallyright answer is: what if he is? Is there something wrong with being a muslim in this country? The answer is no. That is not America. Is there something wrong with some 7 year old muslim american kid believing he or she can be president?"
- olefoo 18y ago
  I think it more likely that Americans would elect a Muslim than an atheist. We still have a long ways to go in overcoming our prejudices.
tdavis 18y ago
Really? I thought he was Muslim (not that I follow politics). Him being Christian is just downright boring.

aaronblohowiak 18y ago

How do you figure he is a non-practicing Muslim? http://urbanlegends.about.com/library/bl_barack_obama_muslim.htm http://urbanlegends.about.com/library/bl_barack_obama_muslim... Obama is not responsible for the change in mainstream american views on race, but he is commendable for how he has (mostly not) approached race as a political topic in his campaign.

swilliams 18y ago

Others have already said it, but to quote Mr. Obama directly: "As a starting point, it means I believe in [sic] that Jesus Christ died for my sins and that I am redeemed through him." http://rickwarrennews.com/transcript/civil_forum_transcript-02.txt http://rickwarrennews.com/transcript/civil_forum_transcript-...

adrianwaj 18y ago
This would carry more weight with me if he weren't a politician. Let's hope he practices what he preaches.

adrianwaj 18y ago

Wow, for an apparently worthless comment, it sure has generated a lot of discussion!