4 ms·

> You can't play nice with dictatorships in the hope that your long term economic interests will be aligned to the point that the other party will be forced to

> You can't play nice with dictatorships in the hope that your long term economic interests will be aligned to the point that the other party will be forced to continue to play nice. This is a false equivalence of democracy = partner. The US has been happy to trade with friendly dictatorships (e.g. Saudi Arabia) and has itself threatened, overthrown, or interefered in democratic and popular governments (e.g. Chile) that didn't align with its interests.

jacquesm 4y ago
Indeed, and it shouldn't.
jeswin 4y ago
Saudis will never be a military threat to the democratic order the way China can be. That's a key difference.
- anigbrowl 4y ago
  Kinetically, no. Strategically they can and do mess with America's blood pressure by twiddling the valve on their oil output. China fields a lot of conventional military force though I have my doubts about their desire or ability to project it farther than Taiwan.
- ramblenode 4y ago
  What is "the democratic order"? Since the end of WWII, the US has overthrown at least four democratic governments (more than China) and funded numerous authoritarian governments that were/are US-aligned. To much of the world outside the north Atlantic states the "democratic order" is viewed a lot more cynically. Especially ask someone from Latin America what they think of this. Saudi Arabia was the key force that reverted the democratization of Bahrain and in general is a block for democratization in the Arabian Peninsula. That you don't think they are a threat to democracy belies what your "democratic order" really is: US hegemony.
ChatGTP 4y ago
People on HN mostly just like pretend America is perfect though, never invaded a country, dealt with criminals etc. Only terrible people in Russia and China are capable of this.
ChatGTP 4y ago
People on HN mostly just like pretend America is perfect though, never invaded a country, dealt with criminals , dropped a nuclear bomb on a large city of civilians, etc. Only terrible people in Russia and China are capable of this. I like America too, just important to consider a coin has multiple sides.
- seanmcdirmid 4y ago
  It feels like to me most people on HN have the opposite sentiment: America is evil, they invade countries just for fun, drop bombs just for the lutz. In contrast, there was a time when China got a lot of support on HN before their actions evaporated it.
- rnk 4y ago
  People have varying opinions here but I see plenty of slagging on america's vast history of problems. We are trying to do better but let's see how we do over the next years - we can do so much better. We did all those things and worse, don't forget genocide against native americans, half the country is in denial that slavery and racism were terrible things that still impact us today. And on it goes.

jacquesm 4y ago

Indeed, and it shouldn't.

jeswin 4y ago

Saudis will never be a military threat to the democratic order the way China can be. That's a key difference.

anigbrowl 4y ago
Kinetically, no. Strategically they can and do mess with America's blood pressure by twiddling the valve on their oil output. China fields a lot of conventional military force though I have my doubts about their desire or ability to project it farther than Taiwan.
ramblenode 4y ago
What is "the democratic order"? Since the end of WWII, the US has overthrown at least four democratic governments (more than China) and funded numerous authoritarian governments that were/are US-aligned. To much of the world outside the north Atlantic states the "democratic order" is viewed a lot more cynically. Especially ask someone from Latin America what they think of this. Saudi Arabia was the key force that reverted the democratization of Bahrain and in general is a block for democratization in the Arabian Peninsula. That you don't think they are a threat to democracy belies what your "democratic order" really is: US hegemony.

ChatGTP 4y ago

People on HN mostly just like pretend America is perfect though, never invaded a country, dealt with criminals etc. Only terrible people in Russia and China are capable of this.

ChatGTP 4y ago

People on HN mostly just like pretend America is perfect though, never invaded a country, dealt with criminals , dropped a nuclear bomb on a large city of civilians, etc. Only terrible people in Russia and China are capable of this. I like America too, just important to consider a coin has multiple sides.

seanmcdirmid 4y ago
It feels like to me most people on HN have the opposite sentiment: America is evil, they invade countries just for fun, drop bombs just for the lutz. In contrast, there was a time when China got a lot of support on HN before their actions evaporated it.
rnk 4y ago
People have varying opinions here but I see plenty of slagging on america's vast history of problems. We are trying to do better but let's see how we do over the next years - we can do so much better. We did all those things and worse, don't forget genocide against native americans, half the country is in denial that slavery and racism were terrible things that still impact us today. And on it goes.