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>and more convinced that China is subject to many of the same political struggles Who's going to vote their government out or jam things up with filibuster? Fo

>and more convinced that China is subject to many of the same political struggles Who's going to vote their government out or jam things up with filibuster? For better or worse their government just 'does'. You cannot seriously compare a system like this to US/UK democracy paralyzation during things like COVID. I do not think their system is better or worse, it's just not subject to any kind of politics internally that would get in the way of whatever the hell their national intentions of the now are.

klodolph 4y ago
> I do not think their system is better or worse, it's just not subject to any kind of politics internally that would get in the way of whatever the hell their national intentions of the now are. If you are arguing that the Communist Party of China is not subject to internal politics, I don’t think that argument will withstand much scrutiny. Think about how much internal politics there are within the Democratic party or the Republican party of the US. Having a one-party state does not inoculate a country from internal politics.
- uejfiweun 4y ago
  I think the distinction the parent is trying to make is that China's system is not subject to checks and balances (aka 'politics') that intentionally slow down the operations of government. Of course, any human organization will deal with organizational politics such as backstabbing and ladder-climbers. But in terms of national politics to decide policy, it's really just under full control of Xi. There are pros and cons to each approach. The US system is certainly slower and more infuriating but is also less prone to shooting itself in the foot. China's system works well when it works, but it more easily produces giant missteps like the Great Leap Forward or zero covid.
worrycue 4y ago
> Who's going to vote their government out or jam things up with filibuster? Losing an election in the US just means you are out of a job - and lose all its perks. Losing power in an authoritarian government could mean you are arrested for “corruption” and sentenced to death. The paranoia (and occasional country sabotaging acts) of CCP critters are justified as it’s a no holds barred fight for power and survival. https://archive.is/d9OsU https://archive.is/d9OsU
- seanmcdirmid 4y ago
  Look what happened to Hu Jintao at the last party congress. However, China is pretty mellow about this: presidents/party leaders are allowed to retire gracefully since Deng Xiaoping set that precedent. I don't see even Xi or his successor breaking that contract.
  - rippercushions 4y ago
    If you make it to the very top, perhaps, but plenty of people at the pinnacle of power have been jailed. Here's the guy who lost the power struggle to Xi: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bo_Xilai https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bo_Xilai
    - seanmcdirmid 4y ago
      Bo Xilai had it coming to him by having that British guy murdered. Even though they pinned in on his wife, he had to have known. That wasn't so much of a lost power struggle as it was "you crossed a line even high officials cannot cross." But if you give them enough rope and fall out of favor, ya, you will be made an example of. It is difficult to make it very high without creating lots of rope, however.
- patrick451 4y ago
  > Losing power in an authoritarian government could mean you are arrested for “corruption” and sentenced to death. The US is nearly there.
  - rurp 4y ago
    I would love to hear which US politicians you think narrowly evaded a death sentence simply from losing an election.
    - patrick451 4y ago
      We just had one indicted for "corruption". Half of the predicate is true, hence "nearly there".

klodolph 4y ago

> I do not think their system is better or worse, it's just not subject to any kind of politics internally that would get in the way of whatever the hell their national intentions of the now are. If you are arguing that the Communist Party of China is not subject to internal politics, I don’t think that argument will withstand much scrutiny. Think about how much internal politics there are within the Democratic party or the Republican party of the US. Having a one-party state does not inoculate a country from internal politics.

uejfiweun 4y ago
I think the distinction the parent is trying to make is that China's system is not subject to checks and balances (aka 'politics') that intentionally slow down the operations of government. Of course, any human organization will deal with organizational politics such as backstabbing and ladder-climbers. But in terms of national politics to decide policy, it's really just under full control of Xi. There are pros and cons to each approach. The US system is certainly slower and more infuriating but is also less prone to shooting itself in the foot. China's system works well when it works, but it more easily produces giant missteps like the Great Leap Forward or zero covid.

worrycue 4y ago

> Who's going to vote their government out or jam things up with filibuster? Losing an election in the US just means you are out of a job - and lose all its perks. Losing power in an authoritarian government could mean you are arrested for “corruption” and sentenced to death. The paranoia (and occasional country sabotaging acts) of CCP critters are justified as it’s a no holds barred fight for power and survival. https://archive.is/d9OsU https://archive.is/d9OsU

seanmcdirmid 4y ago
Look what happened to Hu Jintao at the last party congress. However, China is pretty mellow about this: presidents/party leaders are allowed to retire gracefully since Deng Xiaoping set that precedent. I don't see even Xi or his successor breaking that contract.
- rippercushions 4y ago
  If you make it to the very top, perhaps, but plenty of people at the pinnacle of power have been jailed. Here's the guy who lost the power struggle to Xi: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bo_Xilai https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bo_Xilai
  - seanmcdirmid 4y ago
    Bo Xilai had it coming to him by having that British guy murdered. Even though they pinned in on his wife, he had to have known. That wasn't so much of a lost power struggle as it was "you crossed a line even high officials cannot cross." But if you give them enough rope and fall out of favor, ya, you will be made an example of. It is difficult to make it very high without creating lots of rope, however.
patrick451 4y ago
> Losing power in an authoritarian government could mean you are arrested for “corruption” and sentenced to death. The US is nearly there.
- rurp 4y ago
  I would love to hear which US politicians you think narrowly evaded a death sentence simply from losing an election.
  - patrick451 4y ago
    We just had one indicted for "corruption". Half of the predicate is true, hence "nearly there".