6 ms·

6pm? Man, I’m so glad I didn’t work for you. That is late.

gweinberg 4y ago
Not if you don't get there until 10 is isn't. But enforcing a late start is a lot harder than enforcing an early finish. What are you going to do, refuse to let people in if they show up early? Besides, sometimes you can't help it. When I was taking BART to work, I had to get to the station before the parking filled up.
- nonethewiser 4y ago
  It’s still late in absolute terms. Not everything can just shift around to an abnormally late work schedule. This sort of schedule gives you virtually no free time with kids. Get home, eat, put kids to bed, wake up early because school doesn’t start at 10am, send them to school, wait a bit, leave for work. We are lucky that things are more flexible now. I don’t blame the manager. It was a different time. But it’s a schedule that doesn’t work well for a lot of people.
  - neura 4y ago
    I seriously think that the specific range of hours was not at all the point of the example. Would you disagree? If you're going to nit-pick, my kid starts school at 9am, so I can't start work before 9am. What about remote workers and the example of walking around the office? I'm pretty sure the example was specifically to note that cutting off their work hours was a successful tactic with respect to leaving them with something to start in the morning, vs letting them finish what they're working on and then have to figure out what/how to get started on in the morning. Literally the point of the article there, leaving your work unfinished or broken, as it were, so you can just jump in knowing the next thing you were already going to do last night, but forced yourself not to or were forced to not finish.
    - nonethewiser 4y ago
      I’m not not picking, I’m disagreeing with the idea that the relative end time is all that matters. I specifically did not blame the manager in my comment.
      - augment001 4y ago
        It’s really not clear what you’re saying other than that 6pm would be too late for you personally. As I’ve explained - I picked that time as the latest people were allowed to work in the office. Before I adopted this, people were randomly staying much later.
  - augment001 4y ago
    It’s true that the team was made up of mostly young, unmarried men. I think only one senior person had children. I don’t recall what his needs were, but I wasn’t a hard-ass about not leaving early if people were productive. And certainly if the team in general hadn’t liked the hours, I’d have negotiated. We moved from 9am to 10am for that reason.
  - mock-possum 4y ago
    Your problem should not be how early or how late the schedule is - your problem should be that it’s arbitrary across all workers, regardless of circumstance. We all would prefer to work a particular schedule - we all deserve to be able to negotiate our hours based on necessary overlap with our coworkers preferences. “I wake up early so all of you have to wake up early” and “I work late so all of you have to work late” are both not nice.
- augment001 4y ago
  Yeah - I couldn’t enforce a late start, 9am was too early to ask people to come in.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
throwaway1777 4y ago
Are you younger than 25? Because working 100 hour weeks used to be common in startups. Look up stories from the early days of google and Facebook. People lived in the office. It was by choice. No one forces you to do it and plenty of other companies to work for if you wanted balance.
- nonethewiser 4y ago
  Well working 100 hours is still common in investment banking. But why focus on these subsets of jobs?
- augment001 4y ago
  You are actually forced to do it if you choose to work for a place like that.
- irrational 4y ago
  I'm over 50. I work from home now, but when I did have to go into the office, I'd typically show up just before 10:30 standup and head out by 4. And I'd take an hour or two to workout in the one of the fitness facilities on campus in between. My bosses have always been happy with my work and output.
  - catiopatio 4y ago
    With an hour for lunch, that’s only 2.5-3.5 hours of work a day. Even less factoring in the stand-up. What role were you able to be successful at while only putting in 2.5hrs of work a day? Posted as an edit, since YC is doing its inexplicable rate-limiting on replies to this thread: > Work != presence. In a role in which you don't have to sit in front of a computer, 3h presence could mean 8+ hours of work. … I typically start working when I step into the shower in the morning. … I think that all counts as work hours. I work from home, but I do not count my showers as working hours. That’s patently ludicrous, and frankly, 2.5-3.5 hours of “presence” a day is unbelievable. Someone putting in so few hours is shirking their work, period. My work is in software verification, so it’s not as if I don’t need time to think, but I also put in the actual hours required every day to appreciably kick the can forward. I’d be livid to be stuck working with (and waiting on) someone who considered their shower and commute as working hours.
alana314 4y ago
Everywhere I've worked has been 9-6, at least this is 10-6 (the 8 hour day has been a lie my whole life)
- JohnFen 4y ago
  I guess I'm lucky! The most restrictive places I've worked set the hours at 8-5, so at least it didn't cut into precious evening time.
nmat 4y ago
This is big generalisation. In South Europe leaving at 6pm is early. Most of the people I know have standup after 10h30 and do 1h lunch breaks.
- mike31fr 4y ago
  What do you call South Europe? I'm in Toulouse, here 6pm is late for some people, "normal" for others but nobody would say it's early here.
adastra22 4y ago
He's saying that's the latest. You can presumably leave earlier, but you can't stay later.

Not if you don't get there until 10 is isn't. But enforcing a late start is a lot harder than enforcing an early finish. What are you going to do, refuse to let people in if they show up early? Besides, sometimes you can't help it. When I was taking BART to work, I had to get to the station before the parking filled up.

nonethewiser 4y ago
It’s still late in absolute terms. Not everything can just shift around to an abnormally late work schedule. This sort of schedule gives you virtually no free time with kids. Get home, eat, put kids to bed, wake up early because school doesn’t start at 10am, send them to school, wait a bit, leave for work. We are lucky that things are more flexible now. I don’t blame the manager. It was a different time. But it’s a schedule that doesn’t work well for a lot of people.
- neura 4y ago
  I seriously think that the specific range of hours was not at all the point of the example. Would you disagree? If you're going to nit-pick, my kid starts school at 9am, so I can't start work before 9am. What about remote workers and the example of walking around the office? I'm pretty sure the example was specifically to note that cutting off their work hours was a successful tactic with respect to leaving them with something to start in the morning, vs letting them finish what they're working on and then have to figure out what/how to get started on in the morning. Literally the point of the article there, leaving your work unfinished or broken, as it were, so you can just jump in knowing the next thing you were already going to do last night, but forced yourself not to or were forced to not finish.
  - nonethewiser 4y ago
    I’m not not picking, I’m disagreeing with the idea that the relative end time is all that matters. I specifically did not blame the manager in my comment.
    - augment001 4y ago
      It’s really not clear what you’re saying other than that 6pm would be too late for you personally. As I’ve explained - I picked that time as the latest people were allowed to work in the office. Before I adopted this, people were randomly staying much later.
- augment001 4y ago
  It’s true that the team was made up of mostly young, unmarried men. I think only one senior person had children. I don’t recall what his needs were, but I wasn’t a hard-ass about not leaving early if people were productive. And certainly if the team in general hadn’t liked the hours, I’d have negotiated. We moved from 9am to 10am for that reason.
- mock-possum 4y ago
  Your problem should not be how early or how late the schedule is - your problem should be that it’s arbitrary across all workers, regardless of circumstance. We all would prefer to work a particular schedule - we all deserve to be able to negotiate our hours based on necessary overlap with our coworkers preferences. “I wake up early so all of you have to wake up early” and “I work late so all of you have to work late” are both not nice.
augment001 4y ago
Yeah - I couldn’t enforce a late start, 9am was too early to ask people to come in.

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

throwaway1777 4y ago

Are you younger than 25? Because working 100 hour weeks used to be common in startups. Look up stories from the early days of google and Facebook. People lived in the office. It was by choice. No one forces you to do it and plenty of other companies to work for if you wanted balance.

nonethewiser 4y ago
Well working 100 hours is still common in investment banking. But why focus on these subsets of jobs?
augment001 4y ago
You are actually forced to do it if you choose to work for a place like that.
irrational 4y ago
I'm over 50. I work from home now, but when I did have to go into the office, I'd typically show up just before 10:30 standup and head out by 4. And I'd take an hour or two to workout in the one of the fitness facilities on campus in between. My bosses have always been happy with my work and output.
- catiopatio 4y ago
  With an hour for lunch, that’s only 2.5-3.5 hours of work a day. Even less factoring in the stand-up. What role were you able to be successful at while only putting in 2.5hrs of work a day? Posted as an edit, since YC is doing its inexplicable rate-limiting on replies to this thread: > Work != presence. In a role in which you don't have to sit in front of a computer, 3h presence could mean 8+ hours of work. … I typically start working when I step into the shower in the morning. … I think that all counts as work hours. I work from home, but I do not count my showers as working hours. That’s patently ludicrous, and frankly, 2.5-3.5 hours of “presence” a day is unbelievable. Someone putting in so few hours is shirking their work, period. My work is in software verification, so it’s not as if I don’t need time to think, but I also put in the actual hours required every day to appreciably kick the can forward. I’d be livid to be stuck working with (and waiting on) someone who considered their shower and commute as working hours.

alana314 4y ago

Everywhere I've worked has been 9-6, at least this is 10-6 (the 8 hour day has been a lie my whole life)

JohnFen 4y ago
I guess I'm lucky! The most restrictive places I've worked set the hours at 8-5, so at least it didn't cut into precious evening time.

nmat 4y ago

This is big generalisation. In South Europe leaving at 6pm is early. Most of the people I know have standup after 10h30 and do 1h lunch breaks.

mike31fr 4y ago
What do you call South Europe? I'm in Toulouse, here 6pm is late for some people, "normal" for others but nobody would say it's early here.

adastra22 4y ago

He's saying that's the latest. You can presumably leave earlier, but you can't stay later.