5 ms·

A key difference being that American society has evolved over the last 200 years to largely outgrow the cultural elements that produced those abuses. We fought

A key difference being that American society has evolved over the last 200 years to largely outgrow the cultural elements that produced those abuses. We fought a very bloody civil war to get rid of slavery, and black people/women have had the right to vote for some time. We're also not massacring Native American villages anymore. Not saying the problems are 100% solved, but no one can argue it's night and day compared to 100 years ago. Putin by contrast is a return to a 19th century Tsardom in everything but name.

medo-bear 4y ago
> We fought a very bloody civil war to get rid of slavery, and black people/women have had the right to vote for some time is that what gets taught in american schools these days? i wonder how the black and natives feel > Putin by contrast is a return to a 19th century Tsardom in everything but name what does tsardom mean? if anything putinism is a caricature of the russian government in Red Alert 2. by that i mean a mix of soviet and tsarist symbolism and orthodox church. its so bizzare
- JumpCrisscross 4y ago
  > wonder how the black and natives feel That they’re better off than being slaves.
  - medo-bear 4y ago
    sorry to break it to you but black men and women are born free. its just that americans put them in chains. im sure that today they are grateful for being treated as 2nd class citizens
    - JumpCrisscross 4y ago
      > today they are grateful for being treated as 2nd class citizens That isn’t what you said. You pushed back on the notion that people fought and continue to fight for others’ rights in America in a way they don’t in modern Russia (or China). That isn’t true, and it isn’t true that America Blacks or women are worse off today than they were two hundred years ago, as OP argued when you pushed back. Perfect is the enemy of good; you’re arguing against American values on a thread about modern Russia.
      - medo-bear 4y ago
        i just love reminding americans that the high pedistal they immagine they sit on when they lecture everyone is actually just a kitsch pigsty
        scottLobster 4y ago
        So long as you acknowledge that our current pigsty is much cleaner than Russia's. The best you can point to is genocides and atrocities we committed 170 years ago, whereas Russia is attempting to commit similar genocides as we speak. And it's not the first time the Russians have committed genocide against Ukrainians. I guess when your nation doesn't change that much in 100 years it's hard to understand that other nations do, so calling up crimes from generations ago makes sense. I bet you berate the modern Mongolians for the crimes of Genghis Khan, and modern Italians for the many massacres committed by the Romans.
        medo-bear 4y ago
        >The best you can point to is genocides and atrocities we committed 170 years ago, whereas Russia is attempting to commit similar genocides as we speak russia's war in ukraine: 25,000+ civilians killed number of civilian victims in Vietnam killed by US armed forces: 100,000+ number of civilian victims killed due to US dropping two atomic bombs on Japan: 200,000+ number of civilian deaths due to war in iraq: 200,000+ need i point out more? as i said, kitsch pigsty. understand the evils committed by your own government before you lecture others. after all you have more freedom than russian people, hence more personal responsibility too. if people do this across the world, world would be a much happier place https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/b/b7/My_Lai_massacre_woman_and_children.jpg/330px-My_Lai_massacre_woman_and_children.jpg https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/b/b7/My...
        dragonwriter 4y ago
        > russia's war in ukraine: 25,000+ civilians killed > number of civilian victims in Vietnam killed by US armed forces: 100,000+ You do know the US involvement in Vietnam lasted 20 years, and Russia is barely past the 1 year mark in Ukraine, right?
- pfisherman 4y ago
  Better to be black in America than Russian in Russia. We got our problems over here, but at least we aren’t being conscripted and thrown into the meat grinder of a pointless war.
  - foverzar 4y ago
    > being conscripted and thrown into the meat grinder I will be labeled as a brainwashed ruskie and downvoted into oblivion if I point out that it isn't really true, right?
    - 5e92cb50239222b 4y ago
      How come? Several of my friends' coworkers were conscripted and sent to the front (the friends themselves managed to leave the country the next day). I don't even need to believe what the newspapers are saying — it's straight from the horse's mouth. The conscription has not reached Ukraine's levels yet, but only because 2024 is not far away, and Putin expects to get his 75% without too much trouble. After that, who knows.
      - medo-bear 4y ago
        i know plenty of ukranians that left ukraine in order to dodge conscription. although they hope russia looses they say they would not give their life for benefit of the corrupt elite. to me that is a smart decision. same for russians that leave russia in order to escape conscription. this war sucks as do all sides supporting it
        jnsaff2 4y ago
        russia is the only side supporting the war, russia can fuck off from Ukraine any time it wants and the war will be over immediately.
        medo-bear 4y ago
        i don't think you speak for all ukranians though https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2022/4/21/whats-behind-pro-russian-attitudes-in-eastern-ukraine https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2022/4/21/whats-behind-pro-ru...

medo-bear 4y ago

> We fought a very bloody civil war to get rid of slavery, and black people/women have had the right to vote for some time is that what gets taught in american schools these days? i wonder how the black and natives feel > Putin by contrast is a return to a 19th century Tsardom in everything but name what does tsardom mean? if anything putinism is a caricature of the russian government in Red Alert 2. by that i mean a mix of soviet and tsarist symbolism and orthodox church. its so bizzare

JumpCrisscross 4y ago
> wonder how the black and natives feel That they’re better off than being slaves.
- medo-bear 4y ago
  sorry to break it to you but black men and women are born free. its just that americans put them in chains. im sure that today they are grateful for being treated as 2nd class citizens
  - JumpCrisscross 4y ago
    > today they are grateful for being treated as 2nd class citizens That isn’t what you said. You pushed back on the notion that people fought and continue to fight for others’ rights in America in a way they don’t in modern Russia (or China). That isn’t true, and it isn’t true that America Blacks or women are worse off today than they were two hundred years ago, as OP argued when you pushed back. Perfect is the enemy of good; you’re arguing against American values on a thread about modern Russia.
    - medo-bear 4y ago
      i just love reminding americans that the high pedistal they immagine they sit on when they lecture everyone is actually just a kitsch pigsty
      - scottLobster 4y ago
        So long as you acknowledge that our current pigsty is much cleaner than Russia's. The best you can point to is genocides and atrocities we committed 170 years ago, whereas Russia is attempting to commit similar genocides as we speak. And it's not the first time the Russians have committed genocide against Ukrainians. I guess when your nation doesn't change that much in 100 years it's hard to understand that other nations do, so calling up crimes from generations ago makes sense. I bet you berate the modern Mongolians for the crimes of Genghis Khan, and modern Italians for the many massacres committed by the Romans.
        medo-bear 4y ago
        >The best you can point to is genocides and atrocities we committed 170 years ago, whereas Russia is attempting to commit similar genocides as we speak russia's war in ukraine: 25,000+ civilians killed number of civilian victims in Vietnam killed by US armed forces: 100,000+ number of civilian victims killed due to US dropping two atomic bombs on Japan: 200,000+ number of civilian deaths due to war in iraq: 200,000+ need i point out more? as i said, kitsch pigsty. understand the evils committed by your own government before you lecture others. after all you have more freedom than russian people, hence more personal responsibility too. if people do this across the world, world would be a much happier place https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/b/b7/My_Lai_massacre_woman_and_children.jpg/330px-My_Lai_massacre_woman_and_children.jpg https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/b/b7/My...
        dragonwriter 4y ago
        > russia's war in ukraine: 25,000+ civilians killed > number of civilian victims in Vietnam killed by US armed forces: 100,000+ You do know the US involvement in Vietnam lasted 20 years, and Russia is barely past the 1 year mark in Ukraine, right?
pfisherman 4y ago
Better to be black in America than Russian in Russia. We got our problems over here, but at least we aren’t being conscripted and thrown into the meat grinder of a pointless war.
- foverzar 4y ago
  > being conscripted and thrown into the meat grinder I will be labeled as a brainwashed ruskie and downvoted into oblivion if I point out that it isn't really true, right?
  - 5e92cb50239222b 4y ago
    How come? Several of my friends' coworkers were conscripted and sent to the front (the friends themselves managed to leave the country the next day). I don't even need to believe what the newspapers are saying — it's straight from the horse's mouth. The conscription has not reached Ukraine's levels yet, but only because 2024 is not far away, and Putin expects to get his 75% without too much trouble. After that, who knows.
    - medo-bear 4y ago
      i know plenty of ukranians that left ukraine in order to dodge conscription. although they hope russia looses they say they would not give their life for benefit of the corrupt elite. to me that is a smart decision. same for russians that leave russia in order to escape conscription. this war sucks as do all sides supporting it
      - jnsaff2 4y ago
        russia is the only side supporting the war, russia can fuck off from Ukraine any time it wants and the war will be over immediately.
        medo-bear 4y ago
        i don't think you speak for all ukranians though https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2022/4/21/whats-behind-pro-russian-attitudes-in-eastern-ukraine https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2022/4/21/whats-behind-pro-ru...