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> My favorite mechanic is the way each dice roll potentially gives everyone at the table some sort of payoff. This keeps everyone at the table engaged and payin

> My favorite mechanic is the way each dice roll potentially gives everyone at the table some sort of payoff. This keeps everyone at the table engaged and paying attention. We've actually found this to be very off-putting. It often ends up with certain players remaining stuck in long droughts, often unable to do anything. As a result, we tend to play with "welfare". Essentially, a secondary currency system that can be exchanged for any resource. Cost scales with the amount of victory points you have, so it becomes less valuable as you advanced closer to victory. We've found this helps create a bit of balance and ensure that everyone has a chance to stay engaged.

deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
thefringthing 4y ago
Some people play by drawing from a deck of dice rolls without replacement in order to reduce the variance.
- SkyPuncher 4y ago
  I actually have that deck. However, I can't get my group to play it. They say that the actual process of rolling the dice is fun. I tend to agree.
  - Rebelgecko 4y ago
    What I'do you laid all the cards out face down on the table, rolled the dice, and chose whichever card was closest?
- aidenn0 4y ago
  It seems like if you have a good memory, you could be a lot more strategic with the robber when doing this (assuming you mean a deck of 36 cards, you know that a recently drawn "roll" won't come up until the next reshuffle).
  - thefringthing 4y ago
    Indeed! You may reasonably regard this to be a bug or a feature.
jbverschoor 4y ago
Check out https://www.thegamemaster.nl/nl/spellen-ontembare-stad.htm https://www.thegamemaster.nl/nl/spellen-ontembare-stad.htm Not sure if there’s an English version. It’s similar to catan, but you have a bit more control over your course
- woolion 4y ago
  NL/DE only with English translation as pdf. The reviews I read also state that the luck factor is overpowering though. https://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/13542/de-ontembare-stad https://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/13542/de-ontembare-stad
FalconSensei 4y ago
> We've actually found this to be very off-putting. It often ends up with certain players remaining stuck in long droughts, often unable to do anything. same here. There were (online/zoom) games where I spent like 15~20 minutes on twitter, and just clicking 'roll' on my turn because I could never do anything I prefer ticket-to-ride, where I can always buy a card or two, and always (after buying enough), put some trains on the board.
- SkyPuncher 4y ago
  Yes! Ticket To Ride has become our go to. We also play a lot of Pan-Am recently.
  - lostlogin 4y ago
    Power Grid and Puerto Rico! https://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/2651/power-grid https://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/2651/power-grid https://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/3076/puerto-rico https://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/3076/puerto-rico
coryfklein 4y ago
This is indeed frustrating, and it's the reason that when I play with newer players I strongly recommend to them not to place their 2 initial settlements on the same numbers! If you put those initial settlements on 2 intersections that happen to restrict you to only rolls of 3, 6, and 9 you're in for a world of hurt even though 6 and 9 aren't "bad" numbers per se.
- totetsu 4y ago
  Could be a good strategy for those looking for an excuse to never play catan again.
WA 4y ago
Interesting. I never considered this. Looked it up and found specific rules and an interesting discussion on BoardGameGeek. Well worth reading, especially if you are an advanced player: https://boardgamegeek.com/thread/150443/famous-welfare-variant https://boardgamegeek.com/thread/150443/famous-welfare-varia...
BayesianDice 4y ago
I used to play a lot of Catan and loved the game but then stopped for a few years over COVID (while I played other games online). When I tried it again, that's when I noticed this "drought" problem more obviously. (But that's just a niggle in an otherwise great game!)
qikInNdOutReply 4y ago
It needs a unfair-fair dice, as is used for random in many games. True random can produce really unfair results, so in any game there is a counter in the background, counting "misses" and gives you a win every third or fourth dice roll. That way it feels more "fair".
- SkyPuncher 4y ago
  Oh. That's a good system. Basically, if your turn comes back around and you haven't gained a resource, you can pick any resource up.
Aeolun 4y ago
If you get stuck like that in Catan you really have nobody but yourself to blame. Sure, if you put your villages on the 2 and 12 you’ll have a really hard time ever getting anything. If you’re anywhere in the 5-9 range you’ll almost always have something every round.
- SkyPuncher 4y ago
  This is statistically not true. While dice rolls follow predictable distribution, in aggregate, they do not do so in the micro environment. You can end up on droughts on "statistically common" numbers. We've found this is further compounded by the fact that some resources will naturally end up with poor numbers on them. You might have a game where there's only one good "brick" hex, but two people have commandeered it. That resource becomes so valuable, that you can never acquire it. While you can technically trade to the bank, the 7 rule means it's hard to acquire enough cards to make the trade.
- igravious 4y ago
  I agree. Complaining that the intentionally random dice-rolling element in Catan is unfair is just … words fail me …

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

thefringthing 4y ago

Some people play by drawing from a deck of dice rolls without replacement in order to reduce the variance.

SkyPuncher 4y ago
I actually have that deck. However, I can't get my group to play it. They say that the actual process of rolling the dice is fun. I tend to agree.
- Rebelgecko 4y ago
  What I'do you laid all the cards out face down on the table, rolled the dice, and chose whichever card was closest?
aidenn0 4y ago
It seems like if you have a good memory, you could be a lot more strategic with the robber when doing this (assuming you mean a deck of 36 cards, you know that a recently drawn "roll" won't come up until the next reshuffle).
- thefringthing 4y ago
  Indeed! You may reasonably regard this to be a bug or a feature.

jbverschoor 4y ago

Check out https://www.thegamemaster.nl/nl/spellen-ontembare-stad.htm https://www.thegamemaster.nl/nl/spellen-ontembare-stad.htm Not sure if there’s an English version. It’s similar to catan, but you have a bit more control over your course

woolion 4y ago
NL/DE only with English translation as pdf. The reviews I read also state that the luck factor is overpowering though. https://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/13542/de-ontembare-stad https://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/13542/de-ontembare-stad

FalconSensei 4y ago

> We've actually found this to be very off-putting. It often ends up with certain players remaining stuck in long droughts, often unable to do anything. same here. There were (online/zoom) games where I spent like 15~20 minutes on twitter, and just clicking 'roll' on my turn because I could never do anything I prefer ticket-to-ride, where I can always buy a card or two, and always (after buying enough), put some trains on the board.

SkyPuncher 4y ago
Yes! Ticket To Ride has become our go to. We also play a lot of Pan-Am recently.
- lostlogin 4y ago
  Power Grid and Puerto Rico! https://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/2651/power-grid https://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/2651/power-grid https://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/3076/puerto-rico https://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/3076/puerto-rico

coryfklein 4y ago

This is indeed frustrating, and it's the reason that when I play with newer players I strongly recommend to them not to place their 2 initial settlements on the same numbers! If you put those initial settlements on 2 intersections that happen to restrict you to only rolls of 3, 6, and 9 you're in for a world of hurt even though 6 and 9 aren't "bad" numbers per se.

totetsu 4y ago
Could be a good strategy for those looking for an excuse to never play catan again.

WA 4y ago

Interesting. I never considered this. Looked it up and found specific rules and an interesting discussion on BoardGameGeek. Well worth reading, especially if you are an advanced player: https://boardgamegeek.com/thread/150443/famous-welfare-variant https://boardgamegeek.com/thread/150443/famous-welfare-varia...

BayesianDice 4y ago

I used to play a lot of Catan and loved the game but then stopped for a few years over COVID (while I played other games online). When I tried it again, that's when I noticed this "drought" problem more obviously. (But that's just a niggle in an otherwise great game!)

qikInNdOutReply 4y ago

It needs a unfair-fair dice, as is used for random in many games. True random can produce really unfair results, so in any game there is a counter in the background, counting "misses" and gives you a win every third or fourth dice roll. That way it feels more "fair".

SkyPuncher 4y ago
Oh. That's a good system. Basically, if your turn comes back around and you haven't gained a resource, you can pick any resource up.

Aeolun 4y ago

If you get stuck like that in Catan you really have nobody but yourself to blame. Sure, if you put your villages on the 2 and 12 you’ll have a really hard time ever getting anything. If you’re anywhere in the 5-9 range you’ll almost always have something every round.

SkyPuncher 4y ago
This is statistically not true. While dice rolls follow predictable distribution, in aggregate, they do not do so in the micro environment. You can end up on droughts on "statistically common" numbers. We've found this is further compounded by the fact that some resources will naturally end up with poor numbers on them. You might have a game where there's only one good "brick" hex, but two people have commandeered it. That resource becomes so valuable, that you can never acquire it. While you can technically trade to the bank, the 7 rule means it's hard to acquire enough cards to make the trade.
igravious 4y ago
I agree. Complaining that the intentionally random dice-rolling element in Catan is unfair is just … words fail me …