8 ms·

Literacy rates in India look to be ~80% and climbing about 1% per year. Obviously it'll reach an asymptote, but it's looking like India already surpasses the US

Literacy rates in India look to be ~80% and climbing about 1% per year. Obviously it'll reach an asymptote, but it's looking like India already surpasses the US in this regard. Of course, given the large population, more Indians are illiterate than there are people in almost every nation. Nonetheless, wouldn't this solution be quite niche? Source: https://www.macrotrends.net/countries/IND/india/literacy-rate https://www.macrotrends.net/countries/IND/india/literacy-rat...

swamp40 4y ago
There is more going on here than literacy. Even if you are illiterate, if you tell someone to pay 10 rupees you could see if 10 rupees made it to your account. Do those vendors not have smartphones? That's what I am suspecting. If they did, an app could announce it and you wouldn't need the external speaker. The speakers seem to be directly connected to the cellular network. And rented for ridiculously small fees.
- alsodumb 4y ago
  Now that I think about it, I am not sure why they didn't just announce using the smartphone speaker - I've seen several vendors with smartphones still using these boxes. Granted, many vendors don't have smart phones, and perhaps sound boxes started with them. I think the fintech companies saw the opportunity and decided to not implement it their app for users with smartphone. Given that they are so cheap, I guess the vendors even with smart phones decided to get them anyway.
  - z3t4 4y ago
    It's difficult to wake up a phone to play custom audio. I believe iOS and Android has made that impossible without rooting the device.
    - wildzzz 4y ago
      You don't need to play custom audio. Notification narration already exists.
- vaidhy 4y ago
  Yes, the vendors have smartphones. The smartphones' speakers are not loud enough to announce over the road noise and general buzz in Indian shops. It would also be too distracting to keep looking down on the phone.
alsodumb 4y ago
I've interacted with several vendors who use these sound boxes. The article is a bit misleading in the sense that illiteracy is not the primary driver of the usage of these devices. It is a better check-out experience. Vendors were busy and annoyed by the fact that they have to use their phone to confirm payments which often hindered them from doing their routine to sell more stuff. Think about vendors making street foods, actively selling vegetables, etc. Now all they have to do is listen to the confirmation, directly streamed from the payment gateway vendor's server as soon as receive the money. Minor convenience, agreed, but the service isn't expensive to run (thanks to the minimal hardware it needs and the low data prices in India) and surprisingly even small vendors are okay with paying a subscription fee for it.
- db1234 4y ago
  +1. First time I came across these speakers was when I had tea in a road side tea stall off an highway. The shop was crowded and I held my phone at the owner to show him the evidence of payment which he ignored and within a couple of seconds my payment was announced on the speaker. Great experience!
- ajonit 4y ago
  Fraud was another reason for the emergence of these sound boxes. Android store was filled with fake payment screenshot generator apps. People would show the (fake) payment screenshot and leave the shop premises (saying “must be a network problem at your end.”) After multiple complaints from merchants, Paytm and the likes innovated this affordable idea.
- achow 4y ago
  Yes right. > The 48-year-old, who can neither read nor write, would need to call his son to confirm that the payment had been received. Looks like the author made up a narrative. These vendors definitely can read numbers, they manage loads of cash through the day. They do lightening fast calculation in their head - which would put a Math grad student to shame. They may not be able to read, write English (or other languages) but they are very comfortable with numbers and operations on them (addition, subtractions...). And they would not need "their son" to confirm the amount (they can read), and also they would recognize a very large green checkmark (an icon to confirm successful transaction), so don't need "their son" for that too.
t8sr 4y ago
I thought you were joking about India surpassing the US in literacy rates, and then I looked it up. It's 75 - 85% depending on how you count. What?! How is this number not 99.9%? Developed countries are at 100% or minus rounding error. Even Canada is at 99%, and that's next door. What is going on in the US?
- eru 4y ago
  I would suggest you double check what definition of literacy the different countries are using. Perhaps the US has a more stringent definition? As an example, for a long time Germany used a way to measure unemployment that yielded consistently higher numbers than most of the rest of the world. So any honest international comparison had to make adjustments. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Literacy_in_the_United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Literacy_in_the_United_States > In many nations, the ability to read a simple sentence suffices as literacy, and was the previous standard for the U.S. The definition of literacy has changed greatly; the term is presently defined as the ability to use printed and written information to function in society, to achieve one's goals, and to develop one's knowledge and potential.[3]
  - bombcar 4y ago
    You also need to see if it’s from official reports based on testing or statistical reports based on surveys. Many people who are counted literate are functionally illiterate- they car recognize street signs, their name, etc but not much more.
- sriram_malhar 4y ago
  It is not a fair comparison. In India, the definition of "literacy" does not mean functional literacy in India ... merely knowledge of the alphabet is enough to qualify ("akshar gyan").
- nativespecies 4y ago
  Public education has been gutted for decades in this country.
sowbug 4y ago
But it's good that there are options. Many of us aged 40+ can't read HN-sized text anymore, and the prevalence of presbyopia among UI designers is evidently 0%. Throw in glare from sunlight, a busy storefront where you constantly need your hands and eyes elsewhere, etc.
JumpCrisscross 4y ago
> it's looking like India already surpasses the US in this regard Different standards. India is measuring base literacy, being able to "read and write with understanding a short simple statement about their everyday life" [1]. The comparable counter-statistic in the U.S. is Level 1 illiteracy, or being able to "unable to successfully determine the meaning of sentences, read relatively short texts to locate a single piece of information, or complete simple forms" in English [2]. That figure is 4.1%. (A Spanish-speaking physics PhD would count.) [1] https://www.macrotrends.net/countries/IND/india/literacy-rate https://www.macrotrends.net/countries/IND/india/literacy-rat... [2] https://nces.ed.gov/pubs2019/2019179.pdf https://nces.ed.gov/pubs2019/2019179.pdf
- Y_Y 4y ago
  You think you can get a PhD in physics without learning to read basic English? Not this century.
CyberDildonics 4y ago
> Obviously it'll reach an asymptote I think you mean the increase will level off. An "asymptote" would mean it is always getting closer to some target number, and there is no reason that would be 'obviously' true.
- flerchin 4y ago
  "Obviously, it'll asymptotically approach an upper bound and level off." I do think my meaning was clear, but yes you're correct.
aatharuv 4y ago
Africa is possibly another target. Its literacy rates are a little bit under India's, and it's another place where digital payments have gone big, even earlier than India. https://www.macrotrends.net/countries/SSF/sub-saharan-africa-/literacy-rate https://www.macrotrends.net/countries/SSF/sub-saharan-africa...
dirtyid 4y ago
20% (~300M) illiterate skews old, higher % of whom are active in workforce and will be for decades. Not that ~300M is "niche" as you said, but think of it technology that helps 50% of the workforce vs 20% of population.

swamp40 4y ago

There is more going on here than literacy. Even if you are illiterate, if you tell someone to pay 10 rupees you could see if 10 rupees made it to your account. Do those vendors not have smartphones? That's what I am suspecting. If they did, an app could announce it and you wouldn't need the external speaker. The speakers seem to be directly connected to the cellular network. And rented for ridiculously small fees.

alsodumb 4y ago
Now that I think about it, I am not sure why they didn't just announce using the smartphone speaker - I've seen several vendors with smartphones still using these boxes. Granted, many vendors don't have smart phones, and perhaps sound boxes started with them. I think the fintech companies saw the opportunity and decided to not implement it their app for users with smartphone. Given that they are so cheap, I guess the vendors even with smart phones decided to get them anyway.
- z3t4 4y ago
  It's difficult to wake up a phone to play custom audio. I believe iOS and Android has made that impossible without rooting the device.
  - wildzzz 4y ago
    You don't need to play custom audio. Notification narration already exists.
vaidhy 4y ago
Yes, the vendors have smartphones. The smartphones' speakers are not loud enough to announce over the road noise and general buzz in Indian shops. It would also be too distracting to keep looking down on the phone.

alsodumb 4y ago

I've interacted with several vendors who use these sound boxes. The article is a bit misleading in the sense that illiteracy is not the primary driver of the usage of these devices. It is a better check-out experience. Vendors were busy and annoyed by the fact that they have to use their phone to confirm payments which often hindered them from doing their routine to sell more stuff. Think about vendors making street foods, actively selling vegetables, etc. Now all they have to do is listen to the confirmation, directly streamed from the payment gateway vendor's server as soon as receive the money. Minor convenience, agreed, but the service isn't expensive to run (thanks to the minimal hardware it needs and the low data prices in India) and surprisingly even small vendors are okay with paying a subscription fee for it.

db1234 4y ago
+1. First time I came across these speakers was when I had tea in a road side tea stall off an highway. The shop was crowded and I held my phone at the owner to show him the evidence of payment which he ignored and within a couple of seconds my payment was announced on the speaker. Great experience!
ajonit 4y ago
Fraud was another reason for the emergence of these sound boxes. Android store was filled with fake payment screenshot generator apps. People would show the (fake) payment screenshot and leave the shop premises (saying “must be a network problem at your end.”) After multiple complaints from merchants, Paytm and the likes innovated this affordable idea.
achow 4y ago
Yes right. > The 48-year-old, who can neither read nor write, would need to call his son to confirm that the payment had been received. Looks like the author made up a narrative. These vendors definitely can read numbers, they manage loads of cash through the day. They do lightening fast calculation in their head - which would put a Math grad student to shame. They may not be able to read, write English (or other languages) but they are very comfortable with numbers and operations on them (addition, subtractions...). And they would not need "their son" to confirm the amount (they can read), and also they would recognize a very large green checkmark (an icon to confirm successful transaction), so don't need "their son" for that too.

t8sr 4y ago

I thought you were joking about India surpassing the US in literacy rates, and then I looked it up. It's 75 - 85% depending on how you count. What?! How is this number not 99.9%? Developed countries are at 100% or minus rounding error. Even Canada is at 99%, and that's next door. What is going on in the US?

eru 4y ago
I would suggest you double check what definition of literacy the different countries are using. Perhaps the US has a more stringent definition? As an example, for a long time Germany used a way to measure unemployment that yielded consistently higher numbers than most of the rest of the world. So any honest international comparison had to make adjustments. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Literacy_in_the_United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Literacy_in_the_United_States > In many nations, the ability to read a simple sentence suffices as literacy, and was the previous standard for the U.S. The definition of literacy has changed greatly; the term is presently defined as the ability to use printed and written information to function in society, to achieve one's goals, and to develop one's knowledge and potential.[3]
- bombcar 4y ago
  You also need to see if it’s from official reports based on testing or statistical reports based on surveys. Many people who are counted literate are functionally illiterate- they car recognize street signs, their name, etc but not much more.
sriram_malhar 4y ago
It is not a fair comparison. In India, the definition of "literacy" does not mean functional literacy in India ... merely knowledge of the alphabet is enough to qualify ("akshar gyan").
nativespecies 4y ago
Public education has been gutted for decades in this country.

sowbug 4y ago

But it's good that there are options. Many of us aged 40+ can't read HN-sized text anymore, and the prevalence of presbyopia among UI designers is evidently 0%. Throw in glare from sunlight, a busy storefront where you constantly need your hands and eyes elsewhere, etc.

JumpCrisscross 4y ago

> it's looking like India already surpasses the US in this regard Different standards. India is measuring base literacy, being able to "read and write with understanding a short simple statement about their everyday life" [1]. The comparable counter-statistic in the U.S. is Level 1 illiteracy, or being able to "unable to successfully determine the meaning of sentences, read relatively short texts to locate a single piece of information, or complete simple forms" in English [2]. That figure is 4.1%. (A Spanish-speaking physics PhD would count.) [1] https://www.macrotrends.net/countries/IND/india/literacy-rate https://www.macrotrends.net/countries/IND/india/literacy-rat... [2] https://nces.ed.gov/pubs2019/2019179.pdf https://nces.ed.gov/pubs2019/2019179.pdf

Y_Y 4y ago
You think you can get a PhD in physics without learning to read basic English? Not this century.

CyberDildonics 4y ago

> Obviously it'll reach an asymptote I think you mean the increase will level off. An "asymptote" would mean it is always getting closer to some target number, and there is no reason that would be 'obviously' true.

flerchin 4y ago
"Obviously, it'll asymptotically approach an upper bound and level off." I do think my meaning was clear, but yes you're correct.

aatharuv 4y ago

Africa is possibly another target. Its literacy rates are a little bit under India's, and it's another place where digital payments have gone big, even earlier than India. https://www.macrotrends.net/countries/SSF/sub-saharan-africa-/literacy-rate https://www.macrotrends.net/countries/SSF/sub-saharan-africa...

dirtyid 4y ago

20% (~300M) illiterate skews old, higher % of whom are active in workforce and will be for decades. Not that ~300M is "niche" as you said, but think of it technology that helps 50% of the workforce vs 20% of population.