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It's strange to see US based workers to bash on Europe based workers who push back for their rights. Even if you don't see any "rights" to fight back, isn't it

It's strange to see US based workers to bash on Europe based workers who push back for their rights. Even if you don't see any "rights" to fight back, isn't it to your own benefit that someone else is fighting for more rights/better conditions? Why would you sit back and accept to be the scapegoat for conditions that you didn't cause or you didn't have any say over at the first place? The companies are laying of people, because? They are not earning as much as someone says so, while sitting on cash reserves?

pm90 4y ago
I’ve heard it described as “Americans think of themselves as temporary poor future billionaires”. Not all Americans, but this is why you see so many simping for the rich even when its not in their own interests.
- robswc 4y ago
  >even when its not in their own interests It is not in our interest to emulate Europe when it comes to tech.
robswc 4y ago
B/c the cold hard truth is that people would rather the 3-4x salaries. https://jobs.theguardian.com/job/8512191/head-of-cyber-security https://jobs.theguardian.com/job/8512191/head-of-cyber-secur... You have the head of cyber security making almost 1/2 as much as many CS grads right out of college. People can and will say they want more rights... but if that were _really_ true you would see tons of tech workers breaking down the door to get into Europe. As it stands, the complete opposite is happening.
- fsniper 4y ago
  How is that at all related? US paying more is not mutually exclusive to people in Europe to fight for better conditions/their rights? Do you consider this to cause US to pay less and in turn lost income? Sorry to break it to you, but it's already happening and not at all related to what happens in Europe, but to US's own incompetency on responsible economics.
  - robswc 4y ago
    >How is that at all related? It is all related. It is so much harder to do business in Europe than in the US, especially in tech. Almost exclusively due to regulation.
    - fsniper 4y ago
      Still? how is that at all applies to workers? Workers should be caring more of how the business is regulated instead of their own rights/conditions? That does not make sense to me at all. Here Google is a behemoth having thousands of employees and most probably unlimited cash flow all across the world and you are suggesting a few hundred UK workers should be more concerned about this behemoth's responsibilities than their own benefits?
      - robswc 4y ago
        >Still? how is that at all applies to workers? Workers should be caring more of how the business is regulated instead of their own rights/conditions? That does not make sense to me at all. You can care about whatever you want. Introducing regulation and hoops to jump through for businesses comes with a cost though. >are suggesting a few hundred UK workers should be more concerned about this behemoth's responsibilities than their own benefits? It goes beyond Google. I'm saying Europe should be concerned that a lot of their top talent leaves to start businesses or work in other countries.
- theGnuMe 4y ago
  Yes but that role you link to will open up a lot of doors, revolving doors as they say. Also does the UK have paid speaking engagements like the US does?
  - fsniper 4y ago
    And that's a government role. I don't know what a US government head of security role pays, but I suppose it would not be on par with a FAANG role?
    - robswc 4y ago
      No, it wouldn't be on par with FAANG but it would still be 3-4x higher. An "IT Specialist" at the US Treasury gets paid between $150-180k. https://www.usajobs.gov/job/716266700 https://www.usajobs.gov/job/716266700
      - fsniper 4y ago
        I am not against at all for more wages, and I don't think any UK worker is too. But if less regulation and lower cost of business comes with this kind of news, thank you but no thank you. https://www.cnn.com/2023/03/31/health/ohio-train-derailment-cdc-team-symptoms/index.html https://www.cnn.com/2023/03/31/health/ohio-train-derailment-...
        robswc 4y ago
        What news? It says the workers studying fell ill but recovered within the same day.
  - robswc 4y ago
    >will open up a lot of doors This could be said about any job >Also does the UK have paid speaking engagements like the US does? No idea
- bb123 4y ago
  > The cold hard truth is that people would rather the 3-4x salaries. This sounds like an assumption based firmly in the American value system. This part is often missed: > 25 days annual leave (rising to 30 after 5 years), plus 8 public holidays and the King’s birthday Anyway comparing a government job to big tech isn't fair. It is big tech salaries that are unusual, not the other way around.
  - robswc 4y ago
    >Anyway comparing a government job to big tech isn't fair. It is big tech salaries that are unusual, not the other way around. A similar role in the US would still pay 3-4x that. >This sounds like an assumption based firmly in the American value system. This part is often missed This is based on people "voting with their talent" and showing that they will put up with _a lot_ in exchange for $150k+ salaries.
  - ilikehurdles 4y ago
    The 5 extra PTO days are not worth halving my salary and then almost halving it again. I may move (back) to Europe when I retire or come close to that age.
    - rejectfinite 4y ago
      Are you paying taxes in your own EU country to pay for the pensions and healthcare? You do know that's how it works, right? The social contract is that in your high earning years you pay into the system then when you are young/old you get to use it.
  - gruez 4y ago
    >This sounds like an assumption based firmly in the American value system. This part is often missed: >> 25 days annual leave (rising to 30 after 5 years), plus 8 public holidays and the King’s birthday So best case scenario, you get 20 days more paid leave than in the US (which typically only has 2 weeks or 10 days). That works out to approximately 7.7% higher effective wage.
    - 4y ago
nradov 4y ago
No, that is not to my benefit. As a US based employee I would generally rather have fewer employment rights. While this might increase my risk of getting laid off, this also makes it easier to find a new job. Employers are more likely to hire me if they know they're not being locked into a long term commitment. And greater labor flexibility increases the average economic growth rate; a rising tide lifts all boats. The amount of cash reserves is entirely irrelevant. Why would shareholders want to waste that capital on unnecessary employees when it could be invested in growth projects or returned as a dividend?

pm90 4y ago

I’ve heard it described as “Americans think of themselves as temporary poor future billionaires”. Not all Americans, but this is why you see so many simping for the rich even when its not in their own interests.

robswc 4y ago
>even when its not in their own interests It is not in our interest to emulate Europe when it comes to tech.

robswc 4y ago

B/c the cold hard truth is that people would rather the 3-4x salaries. https://jobs.theguardian.com/job/8512191/head-of-cyber-security https://jobs.theguardian.com/job/8512191/head-of-cyber-secur... You have the head of cyber security making almost 1/2 as much as many CS grads right out of college. People can and will say they want more rights... but if that were _really_ true you would see tons of tech workers breaking down the door to get into Europe. As it stands, the complete opposite is happening.

fsniper 4y ago
How is that at all related? US paying more is not mutually exclusive to people in Europe to fight for better conditions/their rights? Do you consider this to cause US to pay less and in turn lost income? Sorry to break it to you, but it's already happening and not at all related to what happens in Europe, but to US's own incompetency on responsible economics.
- robswc 4y ago
  >How is that at all related? It is all related. It is so much harder to do business in Europe than in the US, especially in tech. Almost exclusively due to regulation.
  - fsniper 4y ago
    Still? how is that at all applies to workers? Workers should be caring more of how the business is regulated instead of their own rights/conditions? That does not make sense to me at all. Here Google is a behemoth having thousands of employees and most probably unlimited cash flow all across the world and you are suggesting a few hundred UK workers should be more concerned about this behemoth's responsibilities than their own benefits?
    - robswc 4y ago
      >Still? how is that at all applies to workers? Workers should be caring more of how the business is regulated instead of their own rights/conditions? That does not make sense to me at all. You can care about whatever you want. Introducing regulation and hoops to jump through for businesses comes with a cost though. >are suggesting a few hundred UK workers should be more concerned about this behemoth's responsibilities than their own benefits? It goes beyond Google. I'm saying Europe should be concerned that a lot of their top talent leaves to start businesses or work in other countries.
theGnuMe 4y ago
Yes but that role you link to will open up a lot of doors, revolving doors as they say. Also does the UK have paid speaking engagements like the US does?
- fsniper 4y ago
  And that's a government role. I don't know what a US government head of security role pays, but I suppose it would not be on par with a FAANG role?
  - robswc 4y ago
    No, it wouldn't be on par with FAANG but it would still be 3-4x higher. An "IT Specialist" at the US Treasury gets paid between $150-180k. https://www.usajobs.gov/job/716266700 https://www.usajobs.gov/job/716266700
    - fsniper 4y ago
      I am not against at all for more wages, and I don't think any UK worker is too. But if less regulation and lower cost of business comes with this kind of news, thank you but no thank you. https://www.cnn.com/2023/03/31/health/ohio-train-derailment-cdc-team-symptoms/index.html https://www.cnn.com/2023/03/31/health/ohio-train-derailment-...
      - robswc 4y ago
        What news? It says the workers studying fell ill but recovered within the same day.
- robswc 4y ago
  >will open up a lot of doors This could be said about any job >Also does the UK have paid speaking engagements like the US does? No idea
bb123 4y ago
> The cold hard truth is that people would rather the 3-4x salaries. This sounds like an assumption based firmly in the American value system. This part is often missed: > 25 days annual leave (rising to 30 after 5 years), plus 8 public holidays and the King’s birthday Anyway comparing a government job to big tech isn't fair. It is big tech salaries that are unusual, not the other way around.
- robswc 4y ago
  >Anyway comparing a government job to big tech isn't fair. It is big tech salaries that are unusual, not the other way around. A similar role in the US would still pay 3-4x that. >This sounds like an assumption based firmly in the American value system. This part is often missed This is based on people "voting with their talent" and showing that they will put up with _a lot_ in exchange for $150k+ salaries.
- ilikehurdles 4y ago
  The 5 extra PTO days are not worth halving my salary and then almost halving it again. I may move (back) to Europe when I retire or come close to that age.
  - rejectfinite 4y ago
    Are you paying taxes in your own EU country to pay for the pensions and healthcare? You do know that's how it works, right? The social contract is that in your high earning years you pay into the system then when you are young/old you get to use it.
- gruez 4y ago
  >This sounds like an assumption based firmly in the American value system. This part is often missed: >> 25 days annual leave (rising to 30 after 5 years), plus 8 public holidays and the King’s birthday So best case scenario, you get 20 days more paid leave than in the US (which typically only has 2 weeks or 10 days). That works out to approximately 7.7% higher effective wage.
  - 4y ago

nradov 4y ago

No, that is not to my benefit. As a US based employee I would generally rather have fewer employment rights. While this might increase my risk of getting laid off, this also makes it easier to find a new job. Employers are more likely to hire me if they know they're not being locked into a long term commitment. And greater labor flexibility increases the average economic growth rate; a rising tide lifts all boats. The amount of cash reserves is entirely irrelevant. Why would shareholders want to waste that capital on unnecessary employees when it could be invested in growth projects or returned as a dividend?