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The action, being a request that the case not continue, is equivalent, but the use of "toss" here implies a unreasonableness or inappropriateness that doesn't a

by Bjartr 4y ago

The action, being a request that the case not continue, is equivalent, but the use of "toss" here implies a unreasonableness or inappropriateness that doesn't actually exist. IANAL, but my understanding is that when a court case is brought against you, step one is pretty much always asking for it to be dismissed. It's not unreasonable or inappropriate, it's the status quo for court cases and entirely to be expected. In no way does it reflect on Musk except to say that he hired lawyers that are at least minimally competent.

dingusdew 4y ago
This is quite true. I think the anger over this kind of thing comes from somewhere else, and they're right that the article title is unprofessional and the anger misdirected. I think the actual issue is that people understand that someone like Musk, one of the worlds richest people, can essentially keep appealing rulings until he gets a ruling he likes simply because he can afford to. The justice system is broken when it allows endless chances for those with oodles of money like Musk, but the rest of us can't afford that and usually have to accept what we're given. It's not helpful for people's feelings about that aspect of this issue to cloud how they discuss it. Musk's legal team isn't doing anything wrong within the legal framework, but people tire of it because it seems that with enough money, you can essentially get away with anything. The US justice system has essentially always been pay-to-play/pay-to-win. It's part of why the government doesn't like getting embroiled in legal battles with billionaires because they know they can delay and appeal for decades because they can afford a team lawyers for that long. The governments allotted budget for a legal case is often much smaller than a billionaires. It's how the system was built from the ground up and if we don't like it we should probably vote in some folks who will prioritize changing how it works instead of always being angry at rich people for doing what they're incentivized to do based on how the system works.
- freejazz 4y ago
  Literally just google "Ask judge to toss suit" and you will see tons of results on either side of the political divide. I'm seeing results for Amber Heard, Ron DeSantis, Hillary Clinton, Alec Baldwin...
freejazz 4y ago
Did you read the motion? Do you know whether it is appropriate or not? It's pretty common parlance to refer to this as "requesting that a case be tossed." It's amusing (w/r/t to your naivety) that you assume the request is valid, but the reporting is flippant.
- Bjartr 4y ago
  I'm not not assuming the request is valid, that's for the judge to decide, I'm just saying the submission of such a request is not exceptional. Musk's lawyers, not musk himself, submitted a motion to dismiss that argues the case as filed doesn't have a sound legal basis. That's not newsworthy, that's a court case proceeding as normal.
  - freejazz 4y ago
    >I'm not not assuming the request is valid, that's for the judge to decide, I'm just saying the submission of such a request is not exceptional. It isn't exceptional no one said it was. What's also not exceptional is referring to a request to dismiss anything as "tossing". >Musk's lawyers, not musk himself, submitted a motion to dismiss that argues the case as filed doesn't have a sound legal basis. Not every case has a MTD filed. In fact, if you aren't going to win, a MTD is a total waste of money. Regardless, google "Ask judge to toss suit" and you will see hundreds of results across the political spectrum that are no different than the article here.
d23 4y ago
> the use of "toss" here implies a unreasonableness or inappropriateness that doesn't actually exist. No it doesn't. The lawyer's own language, from the subhead of the article: > Musk's lawyers called Dogecoin "a legitimate cryptocurrency" and the lawsuit, Johnson v. Musk et al., a "fanciful work of fiction." Even if the lawyers hadn't used that language, "toss" is a commonly used colloquial term (which fits for a casual news site like gizmodo) for exactly what they're requesting and doesn't imply an "unreasonableness" or "inappropriateness".
seanhunter 4y ago
For sure. And in this case he has particular reason to ask for the case to be dismissed/tossed with extreme prejudice. The damages sought in particular seem extremely "ambitious" (ie it feels to me like a total shakedown).
dragonwriter 4y ago
> but the use of “toss” here implies a unreasonableness or inappropriateness that doesn’t actually exist. No, its just the usual informal term for dismissing a case.

by Bjartr 4y ago

dingusdew 4y ago

This is quite true. I think the anger over this kind of thing comes from somewhere else, and they're right that the article title is unprofessional and the anger misdirected. I think the actual issue is that people understand that someone like Musk, one of the worlds richest people, can essentially keep appealing rulings until he gets a ruling he likes simply because he can afford to. The justice system is broken when it allows endless chances for those with oodles of money like Musk, but the rest of us can't afford that and usually have to accept what we're given. It's not helpful for people's feelings about that aspect of this issue to cloud how they discuss it. Musk's legal team isn't doing anything wrong within the legal framework, but people tire of it because it seems that with enough money, you can essentially get away with anything. The US justice system has essentially always been pay-to-play/pay-to-win. It's part of why the government doesn't like getting embroiled in legal battles with billionaires because they know they can delay and appeal for decades because they can afford a team lawyers for that long. The governments allotted budget for a legal case is often much smaller than a billionaires. It's how the system was built from the ground up and if we don't like it we should probably vote in some folks who will prioritize changing how it works instead of always being angry at rich people for doing what they're incentivized to do based on how the system works.

freejazz 4y ago
Literally just google "Ask judge to toss suit" and you will see tons of results on either side of the political divide. I'm seeing results for Amber Heard, Ron DeSantis, Hillary Clinton, Alec Baldwin...

freejazz 4y ago

Did you read the motion? Do you know whether it is appropriate or not? It's pretty common parlance to refer to this as "requesting that a case be tossed." It's amusing (w/r/t to your naivety) that you assume the request is valid, but the reporting is flippant.

Bjartr 4y ago
I'm not not assuming the request is valid, that's for the judge to decide, I'm just saying the submission of such a request is not exceptional. Musk's lawyers, not musk himself, submitted a motion to dismiss that argues the case as filed doesn't have a sound legal basis. That's not newsworthy, that's a court case proceeding as normal.
- freejazz 4y ago
  >I'm not not assuming the request is valid, that's for the judge to decide, I'm just saying the submission of such a request is not exceptional. It isn't exceptional no one said it was. What's also not exceptional is referring to a request to dismiss anything as "tossing". >Musk's lawyers, not musk himself, submitted a motion to dismiss that argues the case as filed doesn't have a sound legal basis. Not every case has a MTD filed. In fact, if you aren't going to win, a MTD is a total waste of money. Regardless, google "Ask judge to toss suit" and you will see hundreds of results across the political spectrum that are no different than the article here.

d23 4y ago

> the use of "toss" here implies a unreasonableness or inappropriateness that doesn't actually exist. No it doesn't. The lawyer's own language, from the subhead of the article: > Musk's lawyers called Dogecoin "a legitimate cryptocurrency" and the lawsuit, Johnson v. Musk et al., a "fanciful work of fiction." Even if the lawyers hadn't used that language, "toss" is a commonly used colloquial term (which fits for a casual news site like gizmodo) for exactly what they're requesting and doesn't imply an "unreasonableness" or "inappropriateness".

seanhunter 4y ago

For sure. And in this case he has particular reason to ask for the case to be dismissed/tossed with extreme prejudice. The damages sought in particular seem extremely "ambitious" (ie it feels to me like a total shakedown).

dragonwriter 4y ago

> but the use of “toss” here implies a unreasonableness or inappropriateness that doesn’t actually exist. No, its just the usual informal term for dismissing a case.