4 ms·

Genuine question: are ADHD people inherently disabled in developing self-discipline due to their brain wiring? [I mean disabled in the sense of "they need exte

Genuine question: are ADHD people inherently disabled in developing self-discipline due to their brain wiring? [I mean disabled in the sense of "they need external assistance or must put way more effort", in the same way someone with a muscular disorder might need a cane or put way more effort into walking.]

throwaway743950 4y ago
Yes, they are inherently disabled. Medication can help, but even with strategies, tactics, and therapy, there is still brain chemistry at play. Medication can help, but has its trade-offs and isn't a silver bullet. Self-discipline is also more costly. You can brute-force your way through tasks with ADHD, but it is more taxing on your overall energy. Those with ADHD typically experience impulses often and it's harder for them to ignore. Forcing yourself to ignore them requires extra energy. It's not sustainable to do all the time. It's hard for those without ADHD to truly understand what that's like. In addition to impulsivity, executive dysfunction affecting starting tasks or work is also a big challenge.
- marginalia_nu 4y ago
  > there is still brain chemistry at play. This is sort of non-descriptive. Every time you are happy, sad, angry, afraid, bored, tired; that's brain chemistry at play. Brains are electrochemical computers.
  - TeMPOraL 4y ago
    Read it as "hardware bug that cannot be fully compensated for in microcode".
- nabnob 4y ago
  I don't think this is true about brain chemistry or that ADD is a life-long disability. Just speaking from experience here, I was diagnosed with ADD as an adult in my mid-20s and then started using IFS therapy (parts work) a couple years later for childhood trauma. After two years of IFS therapy my ADD is pretty much non-existent and my executive functioning is better than most people I know. My hunch is that for a lot of people, ADD is a result of growing up in a home that felt unstable so they never gained a basic internal sense of stability that you need for things like task switching or staying focused.
  - epylar 4y ago
    You can't generalize your experience (trauma mimicking ADD symptoms) to 'ADD [is not] a life-long disability' -- people have symptoms for different reasons and there are biomarkers for ADD.
    - nradov 4y ago
      Which specific ADHD biomarkers are you referring to? There are some promising areas for research but I'm not aware that any are yet accepted for clinical purposes. https://doi.org/10.1038/s41398-022-02207-2 https://doi.org/10.1038/s41398-022-02207-2
    - pxc 4y ago
      (I'm not GP.) I don't think the question here is whether trauma is mimicking ADHD or ADHD is a result of trauma, either in general, or in any particular case. I think people lean into the personality traits, 'neurotype', cognitive styles, talents, and inherent tendencies they have as kids when it comes to coping with trauma. You use the tools you have. If you have ADHD and a situation is unbearable, hyperfocus is a tool you have— or at least a pattern you can fall into— that can prevent you from being overwhelmed by the feelings that weigh on you when that situation is on your mind. It would be shocking to me if ADHDers didn't often end up relying on features of ADHD to adapt to traumatic situations. These things are interrelated in people who have both, and I don't think it's generally easy (or necessary) to pick apart 'which is which' when it comes to a specific behavior or experience.
    - tgaj 4y ago
      IMHO many people with ADHD diagnose has really some kind of PTSD that started when they were children. And I believe that kind of condition is treatable. It would need a long therapy of course and a lot of changes in life. And I say this as a person with ADHD diagnose.
  - mandmandam 4y ago
    [dead]
  - bethekind 4y ago
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- withinboredom 4y ago
  A side effect is hyper-focus, which shouldn’t be discounted. If you can learn to direct that focus, you can grit through anything.
tekla 4y ago
No. I find that many people with ADHD never even attempt to put themselves into a situation to develop these skills. I am diagnosed with ADHD, and the best skill I've learned is putting myself into situations where I have no choice but to do the thing I need to do. I refuse to be a person who offloads all responsibility to something that can be dealt with, with some effort.
- PuppyTailWags 4y ago
  I, a non-ADHD person, do not have to put myself into situations where I have no choice but to do the thing I need to do. I simply see I need to do something and then do it. Does this strongly deviate from how I described a disability above? (the inability to do something without extra assistance or significant extra effort)
  - Camisa 4y ago
    I've seen ADHD person explain this as having every reason to do the task, know that they need to get started now, and yet, just can't get around to do it. I've certainly felt that in some scenarios in my life. It's like getting the timing to start doing the task is impossible and everything else, no matter how mundane, seems safer and more fulfilling to do. It's like you are missing the drive to get that thing done to the point that your brain just tricks you into thinking that anything remotely productive seems more important and better to get started on now than the actual task. To me this is a rare occurrence, hence why I think I am not a ADHD person. The problem to me is that this difficulty is hard to differentiate from self-discipline. I suspect you will be less likely to feel that inability to get around to do the tasks that you know to be important to do it if you fail in a way that life itself, the universe, hurts you for the failure, as opposed to your boss saying "you're fired for showing up late". I also suspect that some people use religion to fix this: Like picturing a higher being looking down and saying "Wherefore dost thou not now do that which thou must? Else, I shall smite thee from the heavens or cause thee great trouble in the afterlife."
    - charlieflowers 4y ago

throwaway743950 4y ago

Yes, they are inherently disabled. Medication can help, but even with strategies, tactics, and therapy, there is still brain chemistry at play. Medication can help, but has its trade-offs and isn't a silver bullet. Self-discipline is also more costly. You can brute-force your way through tasks with ADHD, but it is more taxing on your overall energy. Those with ADHD typically experience impulses often and it's harder for them to ignore. Forcing yourself to ignore them requires extra energy. It's not sustainable to do all the time. It's hard for those without ADHD to truly understand what that's like. In addition to impulsivity, executive dysfunction affecting starting tasks or work is also a big challenge.

marginalia_nu 4y ago
> there is still brain chemistry at play. This is sort of non-descriptive. Every time you are happy, sad, angry, afraid, bored, tired; that's brain chemistry at play. Brains are electrochemical computers.
- TeMPOraL 4y ago
  Read it as "hardware bug that cannot be fully compensated for in microcode".
nabnob 4y ago
I don't think this is true about brain chemistry or that ADD is a life-long disability. Just speaking from experience here, I was diagnosed with ADD as an adult in my mid-20s and then started using IFS therapy (parts work) a couple years later for childhood trauma. After two years of IFS therapy my ADD is pretty much non-existent and my executive functioning is better than most people I know. My hunch is that for a lot of people, ADD is a result of growing up in a home that felt unstable so they never gained a basic internal sense of stability that you need for things like task switching or staying focused.
- epylar 4y ago
  You can't generalize your experience (trauma mimicking ADD symptoms) to 'ADD [is not] a life-long disability' -- people have symptoms for different reasons and there are biomarkers for ADD.
  - nradov 4y ago
    Which specific ADHD biomarkers are you referring to? There are some promising areas for research but I'm not aware that any are yet accepted for clinical purposes. https://doi.org/10.1038/s41398-022-02207-2 https://doi.org/10.1038/s41398-022-02207-2
  - pxc 4y ago
    (I'm not GP.) I don't think the question here is whether trauma is mimicking ADHD or ADHD is a result of trauma, either in general, or in any particular case. I think people lean into the personality traits, 'neurotype', cognitive styles, talents, and inherent tendencies they have as kids when it comes to coping with trauma. You use the tools you have. If you have ADHD and a situation is unbearable, hyperfocus is a tool you have— or at least a pattern you can fall into— that can prevent you from being overwhelmed by the feelings that weigh on you when that situation is on your mind. It would be shocking to me if ADHDers didn't often end up relying on features of ADHD to adapt to traumatic situations. These things are interrelated in people who have both, and I don't think it's generally easy (or necessary) to pick apart 'which is which' when it comes to a specific behavior or experience.
  - tgaj 4y ago
    IMHO many people with ADHD diagnose has really some kind of PTSD that started when they were children. And I believe that kind of condition is treatable. It would need a long therapy of course and a lot of changes in life. And I say this as a person with ADHD diagnose.
- mandmandam 4y ago
  [dead]
- bethekind 4y ago
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
withinboredom 4y ago
A side effect is hyper-focus, which shouldn’t be discounted. If you can learn to direct that focus, you can grit through anything.

tekla 4y ago

No. I find that many people with ADHD never even attempt to put themselves into a situation to develop these skills. I am diagnosed with ADHD, and the best skill I've learned is putting myself into situations where I have no choice but to do the thing I need to do. I refuse to be a person who offloads all responsibility to something that can be dealt with, with some effort.

PuppyTailWags 4y ago
I, a non-ADHD person, do not have to put myself into situations where I have no choice but to do the thing I need to do. I simply see I need to do something and then do it. Does this strongly deviate from how I described a disability above? (the inability to do something without extra assistance or significant extra effort)
- Camisa 4y ago
  I've seen ADHD person explain this as having every reason to do the task, know that they need to get started now, and yet, just can't get around to do it. I've certainly felt that in some scenarios in my life. It's like getting the timing to start doing the task is impossible and everything else, no matter how mundane, seems safer and more fulfilling to do. It's like you are missing the drive to get that thing done to the point that your brain just tricks you into thinking that anything remotely productive seems more important and better to get started on now than the actual task. To me this is a rare occurrence, hence why I think I am not a ADHD person. The problem to me is that this difficulty is hard to differentiate from self-discipline. I suspect you will be less likely to feel that inability to get around to do the tasks that you know to be important to do it if you fail in a way that life itself, the universe, hurts you for the failure, as opposed to your boss saying "you're fired for showing up late". I also suspect that some people use religion to fix this: Like picturing a higher being looking down and saying "Wherefore dost thou not now do that which thou must? Else, I shall smite thee from the heavens or cause thee great trouble in the afterlife."
  - charlieflowers 4y ago