10 ms·

Was there a U.S. nuclear weapons accident at a Dutch air base?

174 points by Someone 4y ago

tspace2k 4y ago
[dead]
Overtonwindow 4y ago
It must be emphasized up front that there is no official confirmation that the image was taken at Volkel Air Base, that the bent B61 shape is a real weapon (versus a trainer), or that the damage was the result of an accident (versus a training simulation).
- yellow_postit 4y ago
  Exactly. Quite the chain of speculation built from a single image.
  - tialaramex 4y ago
    Officially there's no explanation for the image at all, but "It's some teenagers at my local high school, plus a lot of Photoshop" doesn't feel at all likely, does it? The idea that it's Volkel seems reasonably solid unless somebody has photographs known to be from somewhere else which look like that. We know Volkel's B61s are stored in a place exactly like that, we know most US airbases don't look exactly like that even in Europe. So the biggest open question is: Did they prang a real bomb or is that a training unit. I mean, one reason you put so much work into training is that people do prang real bombs and it's important they don't freak out and instead follow procedure. So both are actually likely.
    - jt2190 4y ago
      > Officially there's no explanation for the image at all, but "It's some teenagers at my local high school, plus a lot of Photoshop" doesn't feel at all likely, does it? Consider that a state-level adversary would definitely want to plant “fake news” like this (done indirectly through third-parties, of course), for reasons including: • bogging down our day-to-day operations as everyone “investigates” and “double-checks” • observing who in our organization reacts and how, revealing personnel, command structures, and capabilities. • undermine confidence in current leadership To be clear I’m not saying this particular instance is fake or real, just that this is a technique that can be used to gather information or tie-up on an adversary.
      - tialaramex 4y ago
        Your preferred theory is that Los Alamos National Laboratory students can't have photographs of US military training exercises, but they do publish "fake news" for state-level adversaries of the United States of America? OK.
  - azubinski 4y ago
    It's just that Finland joined NATO...
  - Overtonwindow 4y ago
    To be fair, it is the news media… Reporters take nuggets of information, plus buckets of speculation, and spin it into something that you will click on.
    - andyjohnson0 4y ago
      > To be fair, it is the news media… The article in on the website of the Federation of American Scientists. Quote from their About page: "The Federation of American Scientists is a nonprofit policy research and advocacy organization founded in 1945 to meet national security challenges with evidence-based, scientifically-driven, and nonpartisan policy, analysis, and research." Hardly the "news media" or clickbait.
      - splistud 4y ago
        This is an advocacy group. Doesn't even rise to the level of clickbait.
The28thDuck 4y ago
I remember hearing about bad OPSEC at Volkel. Something about how there was sensitive national security secrets indirectly being leaked bc soldiers didn’t set their Quizlet flashcards to private when studying for their exams.
- DigiDigiorno 4y ago
  Wow, I missed that one. I just looked it up. https://www.bellingcat.com/news/2021/05/28/us-soldiers-expose-nuclear-weapons-secrets-via-flashcard-apps/ https://www.bellingcat.com/news/2021/05/28/us-soldiers-expos... I know these human mistakes are inevitable in a large organization, but it's still sobering seeing that a soldier would post nuclear vault release code locations and more online. I guess it's easy to be careless in the daily grind whether it's PII or nuclear secrets...
- warner25 4y ago
  If someone puts classified information into Quizlet, that constitutes spillage whether they set it to private or not. Sometimes this kind of thing needs to be explained even to very senior people, not just lowly troops. I knew of a four-star general asking a few years ago why we didn't use Signal for stuff instead of Teams (O365 tenant hosted in Microsoft's Government Community Cloud), because he "heard that it's so secure that even the NSA can't break it." The answer is that there's a difference between a system being "secure" and being accredited for classified information or even unclassified information that the government owns. Edited to add: Another very senior DoD person actually got in trouble for using Signal for official business a couple years ago because, among other reasons, there's no way for the government comply with FOIA when someone is using a personal account on a commercial application like that.
  - vuln 4y ago
    > Edited to add: Another very senior DoD person actually got in trouble for using Signal for official business a couple years ago because, among other reasons, there's no way for the government comply with FOIA when someone is using a personal account on a commercial application like that. Do you have any additional information on the punishment? The precedence has been set that “no reasonable prosecutor “ would prosecute someone over using personal servers/apps/out band communication to subvert FOIA and National Security. > Although we did not find clear evidence that Secretary Clinton or her colleagues intended to violate laws governing the handling of classified information, there is evidence that they were extremely careless in their handling of very sensitive, highly classified information. > Although there is evidence of potential violations of the statutes regarding the handling of classified information, our judgment is that no reasonable prosecutor would bring such a case. https://www.fbi.gov/news/press-releases/statement-by-fbi-director-james-b-comey-on-the-investigation-of-secretary-hillary-clinton2019s-use-of-a-personal-e-mail-system https://www.fbi.gov/news/press-releases/statement-by-fbi-dir...
MikeDelta 4y ago
Regarding secrecy: a few years ago secret information got out because soldiers used flash-card apps to learn it, and those cards were released/available publicly. https://www.bellingcat.com/news/2021/05/28/us-soldiers-expose-nuclear-weapons-secrets-via-flashcard-apps/ https://www.bellingcat.com/news/2021/05/28/us-soldiers-expos...
- morpheuskafka 4y ago
  You can find a lot of stuff on Quizlet with DoD related keywords. Seems like there are these tests they have to take for various MOS's that they are studying for. I'm pretty sure most of it is unclassified, but some of it might not be public. The flashcards for security guard/MP stuff has some generic stuff like gate runner procedures, but they also have base-specific things such as where Department of Energy OST convoys carrying Special Nuclear Material or weapons would park on base during a Safe Haven unscheduled stop. There used to be one with an old sign/countersign I think. The IT ones have information about where certain undersea cables and satellite ground stations are. The most sensitive stuff seems to be locations of infrastructure within a base. One of them mentions something about Building NH-95 at the Hampton Roads Naval base as being a critical site in the TS/SCI-classified network. Some of them also have the names of the officers responsible for certain programs that could be compromise targets. https://quizlet.com/463959814/scif-flash-cards/ https://quizlet.com/463959814/scif-flash-cards/ https://quizlet.com/547051333/knowperform-doe-vansafe-haven-proceduressoi-31-101-chapter-9-flash-cards/ https://quizlet.com/547051333/knowperform-doe-vansafe-haven-... https://quizlet.com/773174649/spec-op-flash-cards/ https://quizlet.com/773174649/spec-op-flash-cards/ https://quizlet.com/761500482/isec-osi-308-310-flash-cards/ https://quizlet.com/761500482/isec-osi-308-310-flash-cards/ https://quizlet.com/519052943/setup-and-operate-the-kg-175d-flash-cards/ https://quizlet.com/519052943/setup-and-operate-the-kg-175d-...
- prawn 4y ago
  Someone unearthed flash cards from the now head coach of the Boston Celtics, featuring quite frank scouting notes/assessments of various NBA players and teams. Info: https://pdfhost.io/v/lMHgMiGTc_Joe_Mazzulla_scouting_notes_from_Quizlet https://pdfhost.io/v/lMHgMiGTc_Joe_Mazzulla_scouting_notes_f... Discussion: https://www.reddit.com/r/nba/comments/zn3149/joe_mazzulla_has_a_quizlet_account_where_he_has/ https://www.reddit.com/r/nba/comments/zn3149/joe_mazzulla_ha...
ricardobeat 4y ago
Exposing an accident like this via a picture added to a student briefing would be a lot more stupid than the flashcards fiasco. This is just wild speculation based on a single out of context picture.
bragadiru_mafia 4y ago
Ok and then the water supply and all the farms got contaminated and that’s why they are closing all the farms If you’re in NL can you buy a Geiger meter and take a really long cycle ride and validate the hypothesis?
- detrites 4y ago
  There's an app for that: https://map.safecast.org/?y=52.34&x=4.91&z=7&l=0&m=0 https://map.safecast.org/?y=52.34&x=4.91&z=7&l=0&m=0
  - bragadiru_mafia 4y ago
    Magnificent. From the bottom of my Heart. Thank you.
  - wkat4242 4y ago
    This is very interesting, thanks! The map is pretty much as I expected, mostly near zero values (dark blue) everywhere but elevated values where I'd have expected to find them: https://map.safecast.org/?y=51.393&x=30.064&z=12&l=0&m=0 https://map.safecast.org/?y=51.393&x=30.064&z=12&l=0&m=0
bostonsre 4y ago
Would they be wearing protective gear if it was an actual accident? Also, the dude with the clip board doesn't look very concerned...
- dboreham 4y ago
  The damage is at the non-nuclear end of the bomb.
- jacobsenscott 4y ago
  The guy with the beard (most likely the one who knows the most about it) looks like he's ready to take a big step back though.
  - pigbearpig 4y ago
    Then he would know that's pointless.
- ceejayoz 4y ago
  > Would they be wearing protective gear if it was an actual accident? Nuclear warhead cores were routinely handled by hand. Not sure if they still are, but when intact and non-critical, they present very little radiation risk. https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/after-wwii-scientists-conducted-deadly-tests-unexploded-nuclear-bomb-core-180953668/ https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/after-wwii-scienti...
  - rootusrootus 4y ago
    Plutonium is quite toxic, however, and I think by now it would be normal to have some protection when working with it. And given the consequences for playing fast & loose in the past, it's likely we aren't as flippant now. Also, you're talking about the scientists, not the EOD grunts.
    - bell-cot 4y ago
      > Plutonium is quite toxic... Myth. For example - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plutonium#Toxicity https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plutonium#Toxicity
moffkalast 4y ago
Spain: "First time?"
wewtyflakes 4y ago
When the headline is asking the audience, the answer is usually no.
- nomel 4y ago
  For reference, it's: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Betteridge's_law_of_headlines https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Betteridge's_law_of_headlines
  - ARandomerDude 4y ago
    We all know by now...
    - nomel 4y ago
      Perhaps a fresh concept for you then: https://xkcd.com/1053 https://xkcd.com/1053
- 23B1 4y ago
  Article: “It must be emphasized up front that there is no official confirmation that the image was taken at Volkel Air Base, that the bent B61 shape is a real weapon (versus a trainer), or that the damage was the result of an accident (versus a training simulation).” Headline writer/editor: “Hold my beer”
  - vintermann 4y ago
    "There is no official confirmation" isn't especially noteworthy, when they simultaneously boast that they would never, ever officialy confirm something like that if it was true. My bet is most of the editors publishing this story called to ask if it was OK to publish first, and got a yes. They call it a "limited hangout". Better that a reputable source publicizes it with a ton of caveats about how unverified it is, than that someone more hostile finds it out first.
    - tremblane 4y ago
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
andyjohnson0 4y ago
US military is now claiming that the photo shows a dummy weapon: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/apr/03/us-nuclear-bomb-may-have-been-damaged-in-accident-at-dutch-base-report-says https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/apr/03/us-nuclear-bom...
GartzenDeHaes 4y ago
To me, this kind of looks like a host country demonstration, joint exercise, or maybe a damaged trainer. - EOD nuclear procedures are classified Secret Critical Nuclear Design Information. They will not allow someone to take pictures, nor allow civilians to watch. - USAF EOD does use three person teams for nuclear operations, two workers and one supervisor. Normally there are two people on incident response teams. - Some USAF tactical fighter wings do train to drop tactical nuclear weapons, even if they do not have such weapons themselves (for contingency/war plans). - Some nuclear weapon trainers have some explosives, so it is possibly a real EOD response. However, even if the procedures in this case were not classified, I doubt EOD would allow any pictures of an actual operation.
guenthert 4y ago
"Most people would describe a nuclear bomb getting bent as an accident, but U.S. Air Force terminology would likely categorize it as a Bent Spear incident, which is defined as “evident damage to a nuclear weapon or nuclear component that requires major rework, replacement, or examination or re-certification by the Department of Energy.” The U.S. Air Force reserves “accident” for events that involve the destruction or loss of a weapon." That'll buff right out.
karaterobot 4y ago
50 comments in, there should be a top level comment pointing out that the answer is "no", as stated as an update in the first paragraph of the article. So, this is that. > Did the U.S. Air Force suffer a nuclear weapons accident at an airbase in Europe a few years back? [Update: After USAFE and LANL initially declined to comment on the picture, a Pentagon spokesperson later clarified that the image is not of an actual nuclear weapons accident but of a training exercise, as cautioned in the second paragraph below. The spokesperson declined to comment on the main conclusion of this article, however, that the image appears to be from inside an aircraft shelter at Volkel Air Base.] So: no. Gimlet-eyed viewers may have concluded the same thing independently, by noticing that there a couple people standing around in the background looking bored, one of them holding what may as well be a clipboard.
- hnburnsy 4y ago
  I don't know anything about FAS, but this article does not reflect well on them, especially if they are representing scientists.
  - 0xDEF 4y ago
    They are an organization founded by scientists. However today their primary goal is anti-nuke activism. For example the author of this piece is a former Danish Greenpeace activist who according to his LinkedIn profile doesn't have any scientific background other than protesting against Nordic nuclear energy projects before moving to the US.
  - themodelplumber 4y ago
    From what I understand, they have had kind of a history of hiring PR / communications experts and later realizing those people don't really have the same goals or perspectives as the scientists. Seeing that this is a blog post (and one of many) and not a FAS report or article, it's also different in that particular way: Maybe it's written through more of an exploratory / human interest angle and meant less as a scientific publication. This seems especially relevant given the updates posted on the blog post; somebody is trying to keep on top of it, at least...
slim 4y ago
At first a visor cover can be seen showing an orange-yellow mushroom cloud illustrating a nuclear explosion. However, when the video cuts and the commander turns to face the camera, the nuclear mushroom cloud cover is gone, presumably to avoid sending the wrong message to Russia I guess now is the right time to send the wrong message to Russia /s

174 points by Someone 4y ago

[dead]

It must be emphasized up front that there is no official confirmation that the image was taken at Volkel Air Base, that the bent B61 shape is a real weapon (versus a trainer), or that the damage was the result of an accident (versus a training simulation).

yellow_postit 4y ago
Exactly. Quite the chain of speculation built from a single image.
- tialaramex 4y ago
  Officially there's no explanation for the image at all, but "It's some teenagers at my local high school, plus a lot of Photoshop" doesn't feel at all likely, does it? The idea that it's Volkel seems reasonably solid unless somebody has photographs known to be from somewhere else which look like that. We know Volkel's B61s are stored in a place exactly like that, we know most US airbases don't look exactly like that even in Europe. So the biggest open question is: Did they prang a real bomb or is that a training unit. I mean, one reason you put so much work into training is that people do prang real bombs and it's important they don't freak out and instead follow procedure. So both are actually likely.
  - jt2190 4y ago
    > Officially there's no explanation for the image at all, but "It's some teenagers at my local high school, plus a lot of Photoshop" doesn't feel at all likely, does it? Consider that a state-level adversary would definitely want to plant “fake news” like this (done indirectly through third-parties, of course), for reasons including: • bogging down our day-to-day operations as everyone “investigates” and “double-checks” • observing who in our organization reacts and how, revealing personnel, command structures, and capabilities. • undermine confidence in current leadership To be clear I’m not saying this particular instance is fake or real, just that this is a technique that can be used to gather information or tie-up on an adversary.
    - tialaramex 4y ago
      Your preferred theory is that Los Alamos National Laboratory students can't have photographs of US military training exercises, but they do publish "fake news" for state-level adversaries of the United States of America? OK.
- azubinski 4y ago
  It's just that Finland joined NATO...
- Overtonwindow 4y ago
  To be fair, it is the news media… Reporters take nuggets of information, plus buckets of speculation, and spin it into something that you will click on.
  - andyjohnson0 4y ago
    > To be fair, it is the news media… The article in on the website of the Federation of American Scientists. Quote from their About page: "The Federation of American Scientists is a nonprofit policy research and advocacy organization founded in 1945 to meet national security challenges with evidence-based, scientifically-driven, and nonpartisan policy, analysis, and research." Hardly the "news media" or clickbait.
    - splistud 4y ago
      This is an advocacy group. Doesn't even rise to the level of clickbait.

The28thDuck 4y ago

I remember hearing about bad OPSEC at Volkel. Something about how there was sensitive national security secrets indirectly being leaked bc soldiers didn’t set their Quizlet flashcards to private when studying for their exams.

DigiDigiorno 4y ago
Wow, I missed that one. I just looked it up. https://www.bellingcat.com/news/2021/05/28/us-soldiers-expose-nuclear-weapons-secrets-via-flashcard-apps/ https://www.bellingcat.com/news/2021/05/28/us-soldiers-expos... I know these human mistakes are inevitable in a large organization, but it's still sobering seeing that a soldier would post nuclear vault release code locations and more online. I guess it's easy to be careless in the daily grind whether it's PII or nuclear secrets...
warner25 4y ago
If someone puts classified information into Quizlet, that constitutes spillage whether they set it to private or not. Sometimes this kind of thing needs to be explained even to very senior people, not just lowly troops. I knew of a four-star general asking a few years ago why we didn't use Signal for stuff instead of Teams (O365 tenant hosted in Microsoft's Government Community Cloud), because he "heard that it's so secure that even the NSA can't break it." The answer is that there's a difference between a system being "secure" and being accredited for classified information or even unclassified information that the government owns. Edited to add: Another very senior DoD person actually got in trouble for using Signal for official business a couple years ago because, among other reasons, there's no way for the government comply with FOIA when someone is using a personal account on a commercial application like that.
- vuln 4y ago
  > Edited to add: Another very senior DoD person actually got in trouble for using Signal for official business a couple years ago because, among other reasons, there's no way for the government comply with FOIA when someone is using a personal account on a commercial application like that. Do you have any additional information on the punishment? The precedence has been set that “no reasonable prosecutor “ would prosecute someone over using personal servers/apps/out band communication to subvert FOIA and National Security. > Although we did not find clear evidence that Secretary Clinton or her colleagues intended to violate laws governing the handling of classified information, there is evidence that they were extremely careless in their handling of very sensitive, highly classified information. > Although there is evidence of potential violations of the statutes regarding the handling of classified information, our judgment is that no reasonable prosecutor would bring such a case. https://www.fbi.gov/news/press-releases/statement-by-fbi-director-james-b-comey-on-the-investigation-of-secretary-hillary-clinton2019s-use-of-a-personal-e-mail-system https://www.fbi.gov/news/press-releases/statement-by-fbi-dir...

MikeDelta 4y ago

Regarding secrecy: a few years ago secret information got out because soldiers used flash-card apps to learn it, and those cards were released/available publicly. https://www.bellingcat.com/news/2021/05/28/us-soldiers-expose-nuclear-weapons-secrets-via-flashcard-apps/ https://www.bellingcat.com/news/2021/05/28/us-soldiers-expos...

morpheuskafka 4y ago
You can find a lot of stuff on Quizlet with DoD related keywords. Seems like there are these tests they have to take for various MOS's that they are studying for. I'm pretty sure most of it is unclassified, but some of it might not be public. The flashcards for security guard/MP stuff has some generic stuff like gate runner procedures, but they also have base-specific things such as where Department of Energy OST convoys carrying Special Nuclear Material or weapons would park on base during a Safe Haven unscheduled stop. There used to be one with an old sign/countersign I think. The IT ones have information about where certain undersea cables and satellite ground stations are. The most sensitive stuff seems to be locations of infrastructure within a base. One of them mentions something about Building NH-95 at the Hampton Roads Naval base as being a critical site in the TS/SCI-classified network. Some of them also have the names of the officers responsible for certain programs that could be compromise targets. https://quizlet.com/463959814/scif-flash-cards/ https://quizlet.com/463959814/scif-flash-cards/ https://quizlet.com/547051333/knowperform-doe-vansafe-haven-proceduressoi-31-101-chapter-9-flash-cards/ https://quizlet.com/547051333/knowperform-doe-vansafe-haven-... https://quizlet.com/773174649/spec-op-flash-cards/ https://quizlet.com/773174649/spec-op-flash-cards/ https://quizlet.com/761500482/isec-osi-308-310-flash-cards/ https://quizlet.com/761500482/isec-osi-308-310-flash-cards/ https://quizlet.com/519052943/setup-and-operate-the-kg-175d-flash-cards/ https://quizlet.com/519052943/setup-and-operate-the-kg-175d-...
prawn 4y ago
Someone unearthed flash cards from the now head coach of the Boston Celtics, featuring quite frank scouting notes/assessments of various NBA players and teams. Info: https://pdfhost.io/v/lMHgMiGTc_Joe_Mazzulla_scouting_notes_from_Quizlet https://pdfhost.io/v/lMHgMiGTc_Joe_Mazzulla_scouting_notes_f... Discussion: https://www.reddit.com/r/nba/comments/zn3149/joe_mazzulla_has_a_quizlet_account_where_he_has/ https://www.reddit.com/r/nba/comments/zn3149/joe_mazzulla_ha...

ricardobeat 4y ago

Exposing an accident like this via a picture added to a student briefing would be a lot more stupid than the flashcards fiasco. This is just wild speculation based on a single out of context picture.

bragadiru_mafia 4y ago

Ok and then the water supply and all the farms got contaminated and that’s why they are closing all the farms If you’re in NL can you buy a Geiger meter and take a really long cycle ride and validate the hypothesis?

detrites 4y ago
There's an app for that: https://map.safecast.org/?y=52.34&x=4.91&z=7&l=0&m=0 https://map.safecast.org/?y=52.34&x=4.91&z=7&l=0&m=0
- bragadiru_mafia 4y ago
  Magnificent. From the bottom of my Heart. Thank you.
- wkat4242 4y ago
  This is very interesting, thanks! The map is pretty much as I expected, mostly near zero values (dark blue) everywhere but elevated values where I'd have expected to find them: https://map.safecast.org/?y=51.393&x=30.064&z=12&l=0&m=0 https://map.safecast.org/?y=51.393&x=30.064&z=12&l=0&m=0

bostonsre 4y ago

Would they be wearing protective gear if it was an actual accident? Also, the dude with the clip board doesn't look very concerned...

dboreham 4y ago
The damage is at the non-nuclear end of the bomb.
jacobsenscott 4y ago
The guy with the beard (most likely the one who knows the most about it) looks like he's ready to take a big step back though.
- pigbearpig 4y ago
  Then he would know that's pointless.
ceejayoz 4y ago
> Would they be wearing protective gear if it was an actual accident? Nuclear warhead cores were routinely handled by hand. Not sure if they still are, but when intact and non-critical, they present very little radiation risk. https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/after-wwii-scientists-conducted-deadly-tests-unexploded-nuclear-bomb-core-180953668/ https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/after-wwii-scienti...
- rootusrootus 4y ago
  Plutonium is quite toxic, however, and I think by now it would be normal to have some protection when working with it. And given the consequences for playing fast & loose in the past, it's likely we aren't as flippant now. Also, you're talking about the scientists, not the EOD grunts.
  - bell-cot 4y ago
    > Plutonium is quite toxic... Myth. For example - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plutonium#Toxicity https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plutonium#Toxicity

moffkalast 4y ago

Spain: "First time?"

wewtyflakes 4y ago

When the headline is asking the audience, the answer is usually no.

nomel 4y ago
For reference, it's: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Betteridge's_law_of_headlines https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Betteridge's_law_of_headlines
- ARandomerDude 4y ago
  We all know by now...
  - nomel 4y ago
    Perhaps a fresh concept for you then: https://xkcd.com/1053 https://xkcd.com/1053
23B1 4y ago
Article: “It must be emphasized up front that there is no official confirmation that the image was taken at Volkel Air Base, that the bent B61 shape is a real weapon (versus a trainer), or that the damage was the result of an accident (versus a training simulation).” Headline writer/editor: “Hold my beer”
- vintermann 4y ago
  "There is no official confirmation" isn't especially noteworthy, when they simultaneously boast that they would never, ever officialy confirm something like that if it was true. My bet is most of the editors publishing this story called to ask if it was OK to publish first, and got a yes. They call it a "limited hangout". Better that a reputable source publicizes it with a ton of caveats about how unverified it is, than that someone more hostile finds it out first.
  - tremblane 4y ago

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

andyjohnson0 4y ago

US military is now claiming that the photo shows a dummy weapon: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/apr/03/us-nuclear-bomb-may-have-been-damaged-in-accident-at-dutch-base-report-says https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/apr/03/us-nuclear-bom...

GartzenDeHaes 4y ago

To me, this kind of looks like a host country demonstration, joint exercise, or maybe a damaged trainer. - EOD nuclear procedures are classified Secret Critical Nuclear Design Information. They will not allow someone to take pictures, nor allow civilians to watch. - USAF EOD does use three person teams for nuclear operations, two workers and one supervisor. Normally there are two people on incident response teams. - Some USAF tactical fighter wings do train to drop tactical nuclear weapons, even if they do not have such weapons themselves (for contingency/war plans). - Some nuclear weapon trainers have some explosives, so it is possibly a real EOD response. However, even if the procedures in this case were not classified, I doubt EOD would allow any pictures of an actual operation.

guenthert 4y ago

"Most people would describe a nuclear bomb getting bent as an accident, but U.S. Air Force terminology would likely categorize it as a Bent Spear incident, which is defined as “evident damage to a nuclear weapon or nuclear component that requires major rework, replacement, or examination or re-certification by the Department of Energy.” The U.S. Air Force reserves “accident” for events that involve the destruction or loss of a weapon." That'll buff right out.

karaterobot 4y ago

50 comments in, there should be a top level comment pointing out that the answer is "no", as stated as an update in the first paragraph of the article. So, this is that. > Did the U.S. Air Force suffer a nuclear weapons accident at an airbase in Europe a few years back? [Update: After USAFE and LANL initially declined to comment on the picture, a Pentagon spokesperson later clarified that the image is not of an actual nuclear weapons accident but of a training exercise, as cautioned in the second paragraph below. The spokesperson declined to comment on the main conclusion of this article, however, that the image appears to be from inside an aircraft shelter at Volkel Air Base.] So: no. Gimlet-eyed viewers may have concluded the same thing independently, by noticing that there a couple people standing around in the background looking bored, one of them holding what may as well be a clipboard.

hnburnsy 4y ago
I don't know anything about FAS, but this article does not reflect well on them, especially if they are representing scientists.
- 0xDEF 4y ago
  They are an organization founded by scientists. However today their primary goal is anti-nuke activism. For example the author of this piece is a former Danish Greenpeace activist who according to his LinkedIn profile doesn't have any scientific background other than protesting against Nordic nuclear energy projects before moving to the US.
- themodelplumber 4y ago
  From what I understand, they have had kind of a history of hiring PR / communications experts and later realizing those people don't really have the same goals or perspectives as the scientists. Seeing that this is a blog post (and one of many) and not a FAS report or article, it's also different in that particular way: Maybe it's written through more of an exploratory / human interest angle and meant less as a scientific publication. This seems especially relevant given the updates posted on the blog post; somebody is trying to keep on top of it, at least...

slim 4y ago

At first a visor cover can be seen showing an orange-yellow mushroom cloud illustrating a nuclear explosion. However, when the video cuts and the commander turns to face the camera, the nuclear mushroom cloud cover is gone, presumably to avoid sending the wrong message to Russia I guess now is the right time to send the wrong message to Russia /s