6 ms·

This does match up with my experience pretty well. Hopefully once the EU forces Apple to open up their app store I can just tell all of my users that Safari is

This does match up with my experience pretty well. Hopefully once the EU forces Apple to open up their app store I can just tell all of my users that Safari is unsupported and that they should switch to Firefox.

Aaargh20318 4y ago
They you'd lose me as a user. For me as a user Firefox is a terrible browser, it doesn't integrate well with the OS (e.g. no iCloud Keychain) and feels clunky but most importantly: I don't trust Mozilla. In the past they have on multiple occasions shown poor judgment [1][2][3] where they obviously prioritise making money over the interests of their users. For me, Safari is het only browser I truly trust, because Apple makes money from selling me stuff, instead from selling me. [1] https://www.theverge.com/2017/12/16/16784628/mozilla-mr-robot-arg-plugin-firefox-looking-glass https://www.theverge.com/2017/12/16/16784628/mozilla-mr-robo... [2] https://www.theverge.com/2021/10/7/22715179/firefox-suggest-search-ads-browser https://www.theverge.com/2021/10/7/22715179/firefox-suggest-... [3] https://blog.mozilla.org/advancingcontent/2015/05/21/providing-a-valuable-platform-for-advertisers-content-publishers-and-users/ https://blog.mozilla.org/advancingcontent/2015/05/21/providi...
- smoldesu 4y ago
  It's alright if you prefer the way Safari works, but I wouldn't "trust" any browser. I certainly wouldn't only trust the browser made by a company that complies with 90% of government requests for account access: https://www.apple.com/legal/transparency/us.html https://www.apple.com/legal/transparency/us.html A trustworthy browser holds itself accountable by making it's code transparent and it's intentions clear. Mozilla is terrible at marketing Firefox, but I'd argue they've built a much more amicable framework for the web than Apple has.
- kouteiheika 4y ago
  > They you'd lose me as a user. To be quite honest, I don't care. I'm just a single guy working in his spare time; I don't have the resources to keep up with a trillion dollar corporation. I'm so done with the endless Safari-only hacks. I'm so done with having to push emergency updates because Apple decided to suddenly break half of my website in the newest version of Safari. And I'm so done with having to explain to my users that, yes, audio autoplay doesn't work on Safari, and no, it's not a bug, it's because Apple actively blocks it and won't let you decide for yourself if you want to enable it for my site, and all of that because they want to force me to build a native app (where I can autoplay to my heart's content) so that they can extort 30% of my income. > where they obviously prioritise making money over the interests of their users. ...and Apple doesn't do that? > because Apple makes money from selling me stuff, instead from selling me. Are you sure? https://proton.me/blog/apple-ad-company https://proton.me/blog/apple-ad-company
  - saithir 4y ago
    We'll stop being sure when the ratio of ad revenue to hardware sales flips completely, yes.
tgv 4y ago
And I hope they don't have to. Opening it up will move the entire web environment to Chrome, and Google's dominance. > I can just tell all of my users that Safari is unsupported and that they should switch to Firefox. What do you need from a browser that Safari doesn't support? In my experience, everything except obvious bugs has an easy work-around that is supported by the other platforms.
- jeroenhd 4y ago
  > What do you need from a browser that Safari doesn't support? For me: a download for Linux or Windows so I can test with the browser. A macOS VM, like Microsoft used to provide for IE development, would also be acceptable. All my personal projects and even professional projects haven't supported Safari for this very reason.
  - tgv 4y ago
    True. There's browserstack.com, of course, but its free tier might not suffice.

Aaargh20318 4y ago

They you'd lose me as a user. For me as a user Firefox is a terrible browser, it doesn't integrate well with the OS (e.g. no iCloud Keychain) and feels clunky but most importantly: I don't trust Mozilla. In the past they have on multiple occasions shown poor judgment [1][2][3] where they obviously prioritise making money over the interests of their users. For me, Safari is het only browser I truly trust, because Apple makes money from selling me stuff, instead from selling me. [1] https://www.theverge.com/2017/12/16/16784628/mozilla-mr-robot-arg-plugin-firefox-looking-glass https://www.theverge.com/2017/12/16/16784628/mozilla-mr-robo... [2] https://www.theverge.com/2021/10/7/22715179/firefox-suggest-search-ads-browser https://www.theverge.com/2021/10/7/22715179/firefox-suggest-... [3] https://blog.mozilla.org/advancingcontent/2015/05/21/providing-a-valuable-platform-for-advertisers-content-publishers-and-users/ https://blog.mozilla.org/advancingcontent/2015/05/21/providi...

smoldesu 4y ago
It's alright if you prefer the way Safari works, but I wouldn't "trust" any browser. I certainly wouldn't only trust the browser made by a company that complies with 90% of government requests for account access: https://www.apple.com/legal/transparency/us.html https://www.apple.com/legal/transparency/us.html A trustworthy browser holds itself accountable by making it's code transparent and it's intentions clear. Mozilla is terrible at marketing Firefox, but I'd argue they've built a much more amicable framework for the web than Apple has.
kouteiheika 4y ago
> They you'd lose me as a user. To be quite honest, I don't care. I'm just a single guy working in his spare time; I don't have the resources to keep up with a trillion dollar corporation. I'm so done with the endless Safari-only hacks. I'm so done with having to push emergency updates because Apple decided to suddenly break half of my website in the newest version of Safari. And I'm so done with having to explain to my users that, yes, audio autoplay doesn't work on Safari, and no, it's not a bug, it's because Apple actively blocks it and won't let you decide for yourself if you want to enable it for my site, and all of that because they want to force me to build a native app (where I can autoplay to my heart's content) so that they can extort 30% of my income. > where they obviously prioritise making money over the interests of their users. ...and Apple doesn't do that? > because Apple makes money from selling me stuff, instead from selling me. Are you sure? https://proton.me/blog/apple-ad-company https://proton.me/blog/apple-ad-company
- saithir 4y ago
  We'll stop being sure when the ratio of ad revenue to hardware sales flips completely, yes.

tgv 4y ago

And I hope they don't have to. Opening it up will move the entire web environment to Chrome, and Google's dominance. > I can just tell all of my users that Safari is unsupported and that they should switch to Firefox. What do you need from a browser that Safari doesn't support? In my experience, everything except obvious bugs has an easy work-around that is supported by the other platforms.

jeroenhd 4y ago
> What do you need from a browser that Safari doesn't support? For me: a download for Linux or Windows so I can test with the browser. A macOS VM, like Microsoft used to provide for IE development, would also be acceptable. All my personal projects and even professional projects haven't supported Safari for this very reason.
- tgv 4y ago
  True. There's browserstack.com, of course, but its free tier might not suffice.