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Finland Becomes a Member of NATO on Tuesday 4 April
- rendall 4y agoMarvelous news. Onneksi olkoon Suomi!
- boeingUH60 4y agoVladimir Putin: NATO and U.S. weapons salesman of the year!
- boomskats 4y agoPersonally I think Victoria Nuland deserves that bonus more than anyone else.
- jen20 4y agoWhy, does she give orders to the Russian military?
- Animatronio 4y agoWhy, does the Russian military buy US weapons?
- lostmsu 4y agoNo, but that's not what the advertisers are for.
- guilhas 4y agoNo, but she apparently decides who is the Ukrainian president, and opposition. Probably giving them orders too ‘F* the EU’: US diplomat Victoria Nuland's phonecall leaked - video https://www.theguardian.com/world/video/2014/feb/07/eu-us-diplomat-victoria-nuland-phonecall-leaked-video https://www.theguardian.com/world/video/2014/feb/07/eu-us-di... Victoria Nuland: Leaked call shows US hand on Ukraine https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-26089450 https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-26089450 Ukraine crisis: Transcript of leaked Nuland-Pyatt call https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-26079957 https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-26079957
- globalise83 4y agoExcellent. Very much hope that enough pressure can be applied at all levels to ensure that Sweden is also soon approved by all NATO member states.
- Animatronio 4y agoI don't think that's necessarily a good idea. Ignoring the fact that no country should be pressured to accept becoming allies with some other country they don't like, what would Sweden expect from Turkey if, say, Russia invades?
- haspok 4y agoThe same as Turkey would expect of Sweden if, say, Russia invades. Please stop thinking that Turkey (or any other country) is doing a favor to Sweden (or to Finland) by accepting their NATO application. It benefits all parties - Russians included.
- Animatronio 4y agoHow would that benefit the Russians? What would the point of that be?
- davisoneee 4y agoI presume parent is implying that war doesn't really provide any benefit to the occupants of either nation, so by expanding NATO--or otherwise encouraging 'don't start a fucking war'--we get to keep the populace out of war. War might benefit _some_ russians, or _some_ americans, or _some_ <whatever_nation>, but I doubt that on balance 'peace' is a worse situation for most people. So, if NATO can encourage peace (even through threat of force), that's overall a benefit
- rossdavidh 4y agoMy impression is that Turkey does not believe the rest of NATO takes the threat to it from some Kurdish organizations seriously. I have no access to unbiased data to say whether there is any actual significant threat to Turkey's security from Kurdish groups in Sweden, but it does appear that Turkey actually believes this to be a problem. The main risk here is that, now that Finland is a member of NATO, it is not clear that Sweden will feel itself needing to make any concessions to Turkey, but Turkey may still want to demand them. I would rather that Sweden be formally in NATO. Given that the four biggest Scandinavian nations have agreed to practically merge their air forces, whether or not Sweden is an actual member may not matter too much, though.
- alkonaut 4y ago"I must invade a neighboring country to prevent having NATO on my doorstep" - Vladimir Vladimirovich, master strategist "Whoa, if countries are annexed willy nilly then we better join NATO before it happens to us" - Every single one of those doorsteps
- pjc50 4y agoThe stupid thing is that NATO already have a land border with Russia before even 2007: Estonia and Latvia. Both of which were concerned about being invaded by Russia because they have terrible memories of the last time. (Ignoring Kaliningrad, which has a border with Lithuania and Poland but is not militarily defensible, and the awkward satellite state of Belarus)
- alkonaut 4y agoYup. And Norway. And Poland + Lithuania if we count Kaliningrad. The NATO land border just grew by about twice. I don't think this expansion affects any military balance as much as Russia tries to claim though.
- cowbolt 4y agoMaybe a bit pedantic, but Norway (founding member of NATO) shares a border with Russia, although the invasion concern is less pressing.
- tlogan 4y agoThere is an old Serbian joke: do you know why Serbia is an Russian ally? Because Russia is far away.
- jcranmer 4y agoI can't take credit for this, but: Putin was looking to Finlandize NATO, but ended up NATOizing Finland instead.
- tommiegannert 4y ago> I must invade a neighboring country to prevent having NATO on my doorstep Even without involving Finland, it's worse than that. If he successfully invades and conquers Ukraine, he will certainly have NATO at his doorstep. I doubt this was his real reasoning. Maybe the plan was to take only as much of Ukraine to show that he could, if he wanted to, take the whole. Effectively turning the Ukraine into a no-mans-land and maintaining the threat of "don't join NATO, or else..." And Finland doesn't have oil to profit from, so he likely had no plans of ever touching that wasp's nest. I'm not a politician nor military strategist, but I prefer not underestimating powerful people when thinking about their strategies.
- Zigurd 4y agoIt has been understated what a disaster this is for Putin's paranoid war plans: Ukraine, the Baltics, Poland, Moldova, etc. are all on the list to be occupied because these are what he thinks are key to the security of Russia, and that Russia is entitled to rule these places. Now not only is Ukraine out of reach, he has gained 800 miles of border directly exposed to NATO. A single road near this new NATO border connects Murmansk to St. Petersburg. St. Petersburg and the exclave of Kaliningrad are the only access to the Baltic Sea, with NATO nations directly adjacent. Putin is presiding over one of the greatest geostrategic blunders in history and he doesn't even drink enough to have that excuse.
- boeingUH60 4y agoParanoid dictators will always eat themselves. Delusion and extreme corruption can only get one so far. I’m happy that Putin has been exposed for the weak baby he is as opposed to the strong man image that he projected (and many people understandably believed) before this war.
- assholeconny 4y ago[dead]
- mopsi 4y agoThe recent news about Finland and Scandinavia forming unified air force command is a major shift too: > COPENHAGEN, March 24 (Reuters) - Air force commanders from Sweden, Norway, Finland and Denmark said on Friday they have signed a letter of intent to create a unified Nordic air defence aimed at countering the rising threat from Russia. In total, they have 200+ modern fighter jets, soon mostly F-35s. And if you look at the map, they are right next to the main bases of Russia's Northern Fleet and Baltic Fleet. This is a total disaster. Might as well sell warships for scrap.
- walkhour 4y agoThis is an excellent deal for Finland, whose sovereignty is protected. Is it the same for the US? Do I want an attack against Finland to be considered an attack against the US? An attack against the US can unleash the end of humanity. I find very risky to leave this at the whims of some out of touch Russian dictator.
- arethuza 4y agoInterestingly enough - the US is the only country to have invoked article 5 which is the principle that an attack on one member is considered an attack on all - in response to the 9/11 attacks.
- ptero 4y agoTo nitpick: it was not the US that invoked article 5 after 9/11. It was driven by its European allies, which wanted a show of support at that time, to be expressed any way they could. The actual impact of that article 5 was pretty non-existent. 9/11 was not a declaration of war by a state; it was an action of a well-organized group. There are no specific actions that this article 5 could imply beyond the PR.
- yks 4y agoSo the small countries exist and if they cannot rely on big countries for protection against nuclear states, then the only way forward for them is to have their own nuclear weapons. Do you like that world better? Does it lower or heighten the risk of unleashing the “end of humanity”?
- t344344 4y ago[flagged]
- rippercushions 4y agoSweden would very much like to join NATO, it's Kurdish bees in Erdogan's bonnet and a pro-Russian Hungarian dictator lite that are holding them up.
- t344344 4y ago[flagged]
- mrmlz 4y agoIts the social democrats that has supported the Kurds and their various organizations. https://www.socialdemokraterna.se/nyheter/nyheter/2021-11-24-socialdemokraterna-fordjupar-samarbete-med-sjalvstyre https://www.socialdemokraterna.se/nyheter/nyheter/2021-11-24... Swedish.
- t344344 4y ago[flagged]
- dang 4y agoWe've banned this account for repeatedly posting unsubstantive and flamebait comments. Please don't create accounts to break HN's rules with. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
- ceejayoz 4y agohttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sweden%E2%80%93NATO_relations https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sweden%E2%80%93NATO_relations > Sweden applied to join the organisation on 18 May 2022. On 5 July 2022, NATO signed the accession protocol for Sweden to join the alliance... Everyone but Hungary and Turkey have signed off. Turkey in particular is trying to extract concessions.
- pepy 4y agoTorilla tavataan!
- snehk 4y agoI'm very happy that Finland is part of the team now. Sweden can stay out of Nato for all I care unless they finally cooperate with Germany when it comes to the Nord Stream bombings instead of hiding their findings.
- Olphs 4y ago> unless they finally cooperate with Germany when it comes to the Nord Stream bombings instead of hiding their findings. Didn't see that coming
- snehk 4y agoWell, that's just my opinion. Germany's infrastructure was attacked, Sweden said "We're not gonna share our findings with German intelligence". Not sure how there's any situation in which Germany should go to a literal war - no questions asked - should Sweden be attacked if Sweden cannot even share their findings when it comes to an attack on an supposed ally. Would you be willing to help out your neighbor if he told you that he has information about who robbed your house but won't share it with you? I highly doubt it. Source (in German): https://www.spiegel.de/politik/deutschland/nord-stream-schweden-laesst-zusammenarbeit-bei-pipeline-ermittlungen-platzen-a-490b359c-1508-458a-bb57-954e4ce11050 https://www.spiegel.de/politik/deutschland/nord-stream-schwe...
- ihatepython 4y agoRead between the lines. They can't openly say that the US was responsible for Nordstream.
- Animatronio 4y agoWhy couldn't they? If their findings support this theory then they must come forward and say so.
- stametseater 4y ago
- pessimizer 4y ago[flagged]
- cycrutchfield 4y agoWhich nuclear powers are at war with one another?
- tokai 4y ago[flagged]
- refused_cov_vax 4y ago[flagged]
- boeingUH60 4y agoOk, refused_cov_vax.
- refused_cov_vax 4y ago[flagged]
- 2OEH8eoCRo0 4y agoThis is great news! When can we expect Finland to gain western missile defense systems?
- Tommstein 4y agoLooks like they already have some: https://missiledefenseadvocacy.org/intl_cooperation/finland/ https://missiledefenseadvocacy.org/intl_cooperation/finland/
- dagaci 4y agoPutin has become such a disaster of a leader, but the real disaster was the inability enforced the law of only two terms as president.
- pm2222 4y agoHELSINKI (AP) — Finland's main conservative party claimed victory in parliamentary elections Sunday in a tight three-way race that saw right-wing populists take second place, leaving Prime Minister Sanna Marin's Social Democratic Party in third, dashing her hopes for reelection.
- arethuza 4y agoNot sure that is relevant as I thought every major party in Finland agrees with joining NATO?
- coffeebeqn 4y agoNATO is the consensus position. This election was about Finland’s growing indebtedness which has kept getting worse
- weberer 4y agoHalf of the Left Alliance either voted against it or abstained. They're not one of the big 3 parties, but they have enough seats in parliament to have an effect on things. https://yle.fi/a/74-20020423 https://yle.fi/a/74-20020423
- throw_m239339 4y agoWhatever Putin thought he would accomplish, it completely backfired. But the Ukrainian people shouldn't have to pay the price of his lunacy. Neither does his own people which I know too well to know a lot are also suffering from having to fight against their brethren. Stupid war.
- IgorPartola 4y agoAs a Ukrainian immigrant living in the US the current situation in Ukraine is infuriating. I left Ukraine when I was a teenager nearly a quarter of a century ago and it was obvious to me then that sooner or later Russia would want its breadbasket back and an invasion would happen. How was this not clear to those in power? Zelinsky started the process of trying to get the country’s ducks in a row to be able to join NATO and I was happy about that, but it was obviously a little too obvious and a little too late. Russia in the early 2000s was in no shape to invade and that was the time to make this move. But corruption and every level of the government prevented it and gave Russia multiple openings to fuck with Ukraine, from installing pro-Russian presidents, to squeezing Ukraine with gas prices, to eventually annexing Crimea with little to no consequences. How many lives would have not been completely destroyed had the powers that be 15-20 years ago gotten their act together? I should say that IMO Zelinsky is doing as excellent a job as he possibly can with the situation now. The main issue is not joining NATO when it wouldn’t have resulted in war before the process can be completed. And maybe NATO needs a provisional membership process that allows a country to be temporarily considered an ally via a much quicker path so that while it gains full membership it cannot be invaded.
- credit_guy 4y agoI don't understand who you think is to blame here? Was NATO supposed to accept Ukraine without Ukraine applying for membership?
- sylens 4y agoIt seems clear to me that the GP is blaming past Ukrainian leadership
- Animatronio 4y ago[flagged]
- toomuchtodo 4y agoHow much has been spent on the Ukraine Russia conflict that could’ve been avoided if Russia had feared a NATO response (assuming existing Ukraine membership)? Avoided spending that now must be spent to defang Russia. The numbers I’ve seen thrown around are $100B+ in conflict cost. Cheaper to have done the paperwork and meetings imho, not to mention the exceptional loss of life in aggregate.
- Mutjake 4y agoLong overdue, but better late than never. Although the circumstances are grim due to the war in Ukraine, I’m happy we can be in alliance with our European and Northern American kin (and hopefully Sweden will follow suit soon once the wrinkles in relations with the countries stalling get process get sorted out, so we can get on with further integrating our defences both within Nordics and the Baltian countries). Thank you for our new allies for the trust.
- CottonMcKnight 4y agoEvery invasion of Russia in modern history has been defeated by winter, and now NATO is gaining the world's best winter fighting forces as an ally. Even Moscow knows not to f* with the Finns. Couldn't be happier about this alliance.
- TearsInTheRain 4y agoWhat is the US interest in accepting more countries into NATO? Just to solidify its hegemony?
- coffeebeqn 4y agoThe US grand strategy is to build the largest military, democratic and economic alliance in order to dominate world affairs? Finland (and Sweden) punches above their weight in all three
- quercusa 4y agoBook recommendation: A Frozen Hell: The Russo-Finnish Winter War of 1939-1940 by William Trotter. It's a very engaging account.
- rendall 4y agoThis war must end only with Russia's defederation and demilitarization.
- smegger001 4y agowhile that would be ideal, they have nukes on ICBMs. no one is going to invade and force them. change has to come from within.
- rendall 4y agoTrue, but invasion is unnecessary. It would be the condition for normalization.
- tclover 4y agoOne nazi more. Fuck nazis