5 ms·

I doubt this is about price like some people in here are suggesting. Maybe a little bit overall market trend, but primarily I would wager it’s because many, ma

I doubt this is about price like some people in here are suggesting. Maybe a little bit overall market trend, but primarily I would wager it’s because many, many people bought the M1 when it came out and it’s so good that the only people buying M2 are those who waited - it’s a fine spec bump, but not something you would be tempted to upgrade from M1 for.

rf15 4y ago
> I doubt this is about price like some people in here are suggesting. Regular consumers do not buy a regular laptop for 2000+ €.
- matwood 4y ago
  Apple prices have always been high, so regular (by your definition) consumers have never really been Apple customers.
  - rf15 4y ago
    I'd argue some of them have been, those looking for a more user friendly experience or see it as a premium model/status symbol. I write this as someone who bought a new macbook for their partner a month ago, which was a painful experience for someone with average european income.
- coldtea 4y ago
  Except of the tens of millions that do every year, and get the Apple, Razer, Alienware, Lenovo and others high end laptops... Which is precisely the market this batch was intended for, also
  - lotsofpulp 4y ago
    I assume the group of people buying Apple is mostly disjoint from the group of people buying Razer/Alienware. Maybe Lenovo has some overlap.
    - coldtea 4y ago
      Of course they are disjoint. It wasn't implied that they aren't. The group meant in my comment above was not the set of people buying Apple, but the set of people buying expensive $2K+ laptops. And that's a group that includes buyers of the expensive models from all of the above manufacturers.
cptaj 4y ago
I dont know. This site is very biased towards enthusiats. If we are complaining about price, it must be even worse in the wider market.
coldtea 4y ago
>the only people buying M2 are those who waited Those would be enough, if they did start to buy M2, and not settle for cheaper M1 or hold for now
Mindwipe 4y ago
Why not both? (Also I think Apple have a long term issue that the MacOS software story is very, very bad and getting worse and now the sheer performance hype of the M chips has worn off customers might actually look at things like "this is literally no use whatsoever for gaming" and get put off by it.)
- Tagbert 4y ago
  For gaming. I guess that matters to some people. Those people have never been Mac buyers so that is no change.
  - Mindwipe 4y ago
    That's fundamentally not true. If someone is a hardcore gamer then they probably weren't buying Macs, but most customers do a bit of everything, and I would wager a very significant percentage of Mac users want to game a bit. But major gaming studios like Blizzard who have normally made Mac versions of their titles are abandoning the Mac now. Epic is banned. The great white (and always misguided) hope that iOS games would come en-masse has not panned out at all. The library has been decimated by the withdrawal of 32bit support. Metal is not gaining development traction. Boot Camp is no longer an option. The software story for the Mac is getting worse not better, and that is a problem for Apple.
    - pbronez 4y ago
      Yeah I agree with this. I’ve used MacOS for a while and am intrigued by Apple Silicon. But for the prices they’re charging, I need it to do everything. I don’t game much, but I do want to game _some_. I’m thinking about going back to Windows and learning into WSL where needed. If that gets annoying, I’ll go full Linux and put Windows in a VM. I’m not excited at all about Window 11’s telemetry, advertising, and general infestations by Microsoft tendrils. Still, Windows 10 is pretty good from a productivity standpoint. I figure I should be able to configure things to keep annoyances under control.
deleted 4y ago
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ben7799 4y ago
Same.. I have a 13" M1 that I bought right when they came out for a personal machine. For work I have a 16" i9 from 2021. The M1 is so much faster and nicer to use. Maybe if work gives me a M2 Ultra/Pro/Super/Titanium/whatever in 2024 that will make me want to replace the personal machine. But I doubt it. 90% of my computing is on my work machine and I don't get to use my personal machine for much that strains it. The personal things I do that "strain" a machine have become trivial these days in terms of non-pro photo & video editing. Realistically I bet it's late 2025 or late 2026 I would be starting to think about upgrading it.
- rootusrootus 4y ago
  You have exactly the same home/work setup I have, and I have the same opinion. My 13 inch M1 kicks the crap out of my work 16 inch Intel MBP in every meaningful way that isn't screen size. And even then, I prefer the much more portable smaller laptop anyway. Quieter, faster, incredible battery life. I'm not-so-secretly hoping my 16 inch MBP will croak so I can get it replaced with M1/M2/whatever.
  - danaris 4y ago
    I had a last-gen 16" Intel MBP for work that started developing a number of frustrating issues in mid-to-late 2021, and was lucky enough that my IT department was able to replace it with an M1 Max in early 2022. The difference in the experience between the two has been night and day. The M1 Max just handles everything I throw at it, only gets warm when I'm running something with heavy load for a long period, and never gets hot like the Intel MBP did. Here's hoping you can get yours replaced too!
codexb 4y ago
The pricing wouldn't be so bad if their offerings aligned with the market, or at least made sense. Their base level specs are uncompetitive and borderline unusable. There's too much overlap at the lower level between macbook airs and pros. I bet a lot of people are turned off by the idea of spending over $2k on a laptop that still only has a 512 GB SSD.
- bombcar 4y ago
  512GB and 8GB ram is actually quite usable for the cast majority of people who laptop; but their existing computer is likely to already have that so why upgrade? Still should get more for your money, I agree.

rf15 4y ago

> I doubt this is about price like some people in here are suggesting. Regular consumers do not buy a regular laptop for 2000+ €.

matwood 4y ago
Apple prices have always been high, so regular (by your definition) consumers have never really been Apple customers.
- rf15 4y ago
  I'd argue some of them have been, those looking for a more user friendly experience or see it as a premium model/status symbol. I write this as someone who bought a new macbook for their partner a month ago, which was a painful experience for someone with average european income.
coldtea 4y ago
Except of the tens of millions that do every year, and get the Apple, Razer, Alienware, Lenovo and others high end laptops... Which is precisely the market this batch was intended for, also
- lotsofpulp 4y ago
  I assume the group of people buying Apple is mostly disjoint from the group of people buying Razer/Alienware. Maybe Lenovo has some overlap.
  - coldtea 4y ago
    Of course they are disjoint. It wasn't implied that they aren't. The group meant in my comment above was not the set of people buying Apple, but the set of people buying expensive $2K+ laptops. And that's a group that includes buyers of the expensive models from all of the above manufacturers.

cptaj 4y ago

I dont know. This site is very biased towards enthusiats. If we are complaining about price, it must be even worse in the wider market.

coldtea 4y ago

>the only people buying M2 are those who waited Those would be enough, if they did start to buy M2, and not settle for cheaper M1 or hold for now

Mindwipe 4y ago

Why not both? (Also I think Apple have a long term issue that the MacOS software story is very, very bad and getting worse and now the sheer performance hype of the M chips has worn off customers might actually look at things like "this is literally no use whatsoever for gaming" and get put off by it.)

Tagbert 4y ago
For gaming. I guess that matters to some people. Those people have never been Mac buyers so that is no change.
- Mindwipe 4y ago
  That's fundamentally not true. If someone is a hardcore gamer then they probably weren't buying Macs, but most customers do a bit of everything, and I would wager a very significant percentage of Mac users want to game a bit. But major gaming studios like Blizzard who have normally made Mac versions of their titles are abandoning the Mac now. Epic is banned. The great white (and always misguided) hope that iOS games would come en-masse has not panned out at all. The library has been decimated by the withdrawal of 32bit support. Metal is not gaining development traction. Boot Camp is no longer an option. The software story for the Mac is getting worse not better, and that is a problem for Apple.
  - pbronez 4y ago
    Yeah I agree with this. I’ve used MacOS for a while and am intrigued by Apple Silicon. But for the prices they’re charging, I need it to do everything. I don’t game much, but I do want to game _some_. I’m thinking about going back to Windows and learning into WSL where needed. If that gets annoying, I’ll go full Linux and put Windows in a VM. I’m not excited at all about Window 11’s telemetry, advertising, and general infestations by Microsoft tendrils. Still, Windows 10 is pretty good from a productivity standpoint. I figure I should be able to configure things to keep annoyances under control.

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

ben7799 4y ago

Same.. I have a 13" M1 that I bought right when they came out for a personal machine. For work I have a 16" i9 from 2021. The M1 is so much faster and nicer to use. Maybe if work gives me a M2 Ultra/Pro/Super/Titanium/whatever in 2024 that will make me want to replace the personal machine. But I doubt it. 90% of my computing is on my work machine and I don't get to use my personal machine for much that strains it. The personal things I do that "strain" a machine have become trivial these days in terms of non-pro photo & video editing. Realistically I bet it's late 2025 or late 2026 I would be starting to think about upgrading it.

rootusrootus 4y ago
You have exactly the same home/work setup I have, and I have the same opinion. My 13 inch M1 kicks the crap out of my work 16 inch Intel MBP in every meaningful way that isn't screen size. And even then, I prefer the much more portable smaller laptop anyway. Quieter, faster, incredible battery life. I'm not-so-secretly hoping my 16 inch MBP will croak so I can get it replaced with M1/M2/whatever.
- danaris 4y ago
  I had a last-gen 16" Intel MBP for work that started developing a number of frustrating issues in mid-to-late 2021, and was lucky enough that my IT department was able to replace it with an M1 Max in early 2022. The difference in the experience between the two has been night and day. The M1 Max just handles everything I throw at it, only gets warm when I'm running something with heavy load for a long period, and never gets hot like the Intel MBP did. Here's hoping you can get yours replaced too!

codexb 4y ago

The pricing wouldn't be so bad if their offerings aligned with the market, or at least made sense. Their base level specs are uncompetitive and borderline unusable. There's too much overlap at the lower level between macbook airs and pros. I bet a lot of people are turned off by the idea of spending over $2k on a laptop that still only has a 512 GB SSD.

bombcar 4y ago
512GB and 8GB ram is actually quite usable for the cast majority of people who laptop; but their existing computer is likely to already have that so why upgrade? Still should get more for your money, I agree.