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The whole argument about "they clog the streets" and annoy me is absolutely contrary to the actual incentives to cheaper and more ecological transport. It's a

The whole argument about "they clog the streets" and annoy me is absolutely contrary to the actual incentives to cheaper and more ecological transport. It's a very NIMBY type of thinking. Hey, Citizen, if you don't have the means to buy, store and charge your own and occasionally would need one to deal with the craziness and unreliability of public transport, we are going to make it harder on you. Many countries in Europe keep punishing people who don't own cars or other vehicles while pretending they care about the environment. They do the same with bikes or e-bikes. See also the insane cost of train tickets Vs flights. If govs were honest about the environment they would create incentives (positive, not punitive) to foment good forms of transport with good quality of life. Instead, it's a very classist system. HN will probably not get this due to the demo that either owns cars in the US or is on a more privileged class in Europe and likely also owns vehicles and property.

ramblerman 4y ago
This rant is is very off base. European countries are in aggregate extremely pro bike/pedestrian. The scooter issue is particularly in focus, because in big cities the competition to become the main player has created a ton of competing companies trying to place their scooters all over the place. I don't mind it myself - I use them in the summer. But I have had to literally step over, or move around a pile of scooters on more than one occasion.
- isaacremuant 4y ago
  My rant is really ON base but it reflects a demographic very different from the one in HN and will get downvoted as always when something goes against a narrative. It's very easy to parrot the typical points. > European countries are in aggregate extremely pro bike/pedestrian Lol. This is just an ignorant talking point from someone who compares everything to the US. It's like saying healthcare is good (and generalizing as if every country in Europe belonged to a monolith) just because healthcare in the US sucks. The reality is that having options like these empowers people who don't belong to the tier that owns cars and has sheds or places to store their e-vehicles. In many cities, these non car options keep getting worse and more expensive and everything seems geared to those who have more money and privilege and people just have to 'take it'. But hell, let's call it a rant, simplify the issue and outright ban stuff so that people who don't benefit from something can feel more comfortable. With that logic, Let's ban motorcycles. I don't like their noise and don't have one. They're definitely unsafe and cause accidents. Oh, but we're not going to that. So there's bad etiquette around scooter placement and you ban it. The same thing can happen with free parking e-bikes. Why can't you find a solution that doesn't ban e-scooters? You just admitted use them "on occasion" so they're not really useful to you, so you're fine with removing them from others that actually might take advantage. It's the thing I keep pointing out. People from certain positions screwing over others because they're inconvenienced instead of requesting the gov to do better if they want better order or something. It's all rather classist but it happens with everything. Lesson for people: have more money, have cars, live in suburbs, have spaces where you can store your vehicles. Or get screwed by decreasing quality of public transport.
simplotek 4y ago
> The whole argument about "they clog the streets" and annoy me is absolutely contrary to the actual incentives to cheaper and more ecological transport. Bullshit. These e-scooter sharing services operate on cities already covered by all sorts of public transportation services, including municipal e-bike services. The key difference is that municipal services address and avoid the problem of abusive occupation of public space by employing networks of pickup/dropoff spots. > Hey, Citizen, if you don't have the means to buy, store and charge your own and occasionally would need one to deal with the craziness and unreliability of public transport, we are going to make it harder on you. Bullshit. These escooter sharing services operate in cities where public transportation is highly subsidized and monthly fees are mostly symbolic, with some cities being even totally free. Also, a cursory search for escooters shows that there are scooters in the market for 120kg/13km autonomy for less than 300€, and they can be charged by simply plugging them onto any regular electrical socket. > Many countries in Europe keep punishing people who don't own cars or other vehicles while pretending they care about the environment. They do the same with bikes or e-bikes. You have zero insight or basis on reality to support any of your personal assertions. You've managed to be entirely wrong in each and any assertion you made.
- isaacremuant 4y ago
  > Bullshit. These e-scooter sharing services operate on cities already covered by all sorts of public transportation services, including municipal e-bike services. Bullshit. Specially at night. > The key difference is that municipal services address and avoid the problem of abusive occupation of public space by employing networks of pickup/dropoff spots Bingo! Thanks for making the point for me. You want to ban e-bikes/bikes that can be left freely like e scooters can. It's not the scooters but the parking that bothers you and though you pretend to be for bikes you aren't. NIMBY and disingenuous and I'm done with pretending you're anything but. These stations won't feature in less affluent neighbourhoods, these stations won't be as many, these stations won't be as convenient. You're screwing the usefulness because YOU don't use it. > Bullshit. These escooter sharing services operate in cities where public transportation is highly subsidized and monthly fees are mostly symbolic, with some cities being even totally free Bullshit generalization. Paris isn't like that. London isn't like that. Madrid isn't like that. Dublin (which has no e scooter rental but does bike rental) isn't like that. Every thing you say exposes you further. > Also, a cursory search for escooters shows that there are scooters in the market for 120kg/13km autonomy for less than 300€, and they can be charged by simply plugging them onto any regular electrical socket. Which a) implies you have a place to store it (privileged NIMBY) and b) implies it covers the same need of being somewhere and renting it on the spot (such as at night after an event, where you couldn't take a scooter or bike and leave it there). > You have zero insight or basis on reality to support any of your personal assertions. You've managed to be entirely wrong in each and any assertion you made. I've actually supported with specifics what I said while you have been a rude disingenuous actor who uses political generalizations. You're a great example of what I talk about. HN always pretended to be polite and encourage discourse but when someone from reality came in an exposed a narrative, morally corrupt people like you would come down with the entitled arrogance and rudeness that can only be gained of not having to face reality.
M95D 4y ago
I really don't understand why you blame the government. They (the people) VOTED! What did you expect gov't to do? Ignore the vote?

ramblerman 4y ago

This rant is is very off base. European countries are in aggregate extremely pro bike/pedestrian. The scooter issue is particularly in focus, because in big cities the competition to become the main player has created a ton of competing companies trying to place their scooters all over the place. I don't mind it myself - I use them in the summer. But I have had to literally step over, or move around a pile of scooters on more than one occasion.

isaacremuant 4y ago
My rant is really ON base but it reflects a demographic very different from the one in HN and will get downvoted as always when something goes against a narrative. It's very easy to parrot the typical points. > European countries are in aggregate extremely pro bike/pedestrian Lol. This is just an ignorant talking point from someone who compares everything to the US. It's like saying healthcare is good (and generalizing as if every country in Europe belonged to a monolith) just because healthcare in the US sucks. The reality is that having options like these empowers people who don't belong to the tier that owns cars and has sheds or places to store their e-vehicles. In many cities, these non car options keep getting worse and more expensive and everything seems geared to those who have more money and privilege and people just have to 'take it'. But hell, let's call it a rant, simplify the issue and outright ban stuff so that people who don't benefit from something can feel more comfortable. With that logic, Let's ban motorcycles. I don't like their noise and don't have one. They're definitely unsafe and cause accidents. Oh, but we're not going to that. So there's bad etiquette around scooter placement and you ban it. The same thing can happen with free parking e-bikes. Why can't you find a solution that doesn't ban e-scooters? You just admitted use them "on occasion" so they're not really useful to you, so you're fine with removing them from others that actually might take advantage. It's the thing I keep pointing out. People from certain positions screwing over others because they're inconvenienced instead of requesting the gov to do better if they want better order or something. It's all rather classist but it happens with everything. Lesson for people: have more money, have cars, live in suburbs, have spaces where you can store your vehicles. Or get screwed by decreasing quality of public transport.

simplotek 4y ago

> The whole argument about "they clog the streets" and annoy me is absolutely contrary to the actual incentives to cheaper and more ecological transport. Bullshit. These e-scooter sharing services operate on cities already covered by all sorts of public transportation services, including municipal e-bike services. The key difference is that municipal services address and avoid the problem of abusive occupation of public space by employing networks of pickup/dropoff spots. > Hey, Citizen, if you don't have the means to buy, store and charge your own and occasionally would need one to deal with the craziness and unreliability of public transport, we are going to make it harder on you. Bullshit. These escooter sharing services operate in cities where public transportation is highly subsidized and monthly fees are mostly symbolic, with some cities being even totally free. Also, a cursory search for escooters shows that there are scooters in the market for 120kg/13km autonomy for less than 300€, and they can be charged by simply plugging them onto any regular electrical socket. > Many countries in Europe keep punishing people who don't own cars or other vehicles while pretending they care about the environment. They do the same with bikes or e-bikes. You have zero insight or basis on reality to support any of your personal assertions. You've managed to be entirely wrong in each and any assertion you made.

isaacremuant 4y ago
> Bullshit. These e-scooter sharing services operate on cities already covered by all sorts of public transportation services, including municipal e-bike services. Bullshit. Specially at night. > The key difference is that municipal services address and avoid the problem of abusive occupation of public space by employing networks of pickup/dropoff spots Bingo! Thanks for making the point for me. You want to ban e-bikes/bikes that can be left freely like e scooters can. It's not the scooters but the parking that bothers you and though you pretend to be for bikes you aren't. NIMBY and disingenuous and I'm done with pretending you're anything but. These stations won't feature in less affluent neighbourhoods, these stations won't be as many, these stations won't be as convenient. You're screwing the usefulness because YOU don't use it. > Bullshit. These escooter sharing services operate in cities where public transportation is highly subsidized and monthly fees are mostly symbolic, with some cities being even totally free Bullshit generalization. Paris isn't like that. London isn't like that. Madrid isn't like that. Dublin (which has no e scooter rental but does bike rental) isn't like that. Every thing you say exposes you further. > Also, a cursory search for escooters shows that there are scooters in the market for 120kg/13km autonomy for less than 300€, and they can be charged by simply plugging them onto any regular electrical socket. Which a) implies you have a place to store it (privileged NIMBY) and b) implies it covers the same need of being somewhere and renting it on the spot (such as at night after an event, where you couldn't take a scooter or bike and leave it there). > You have zero insight or basis on reality to support any of your personal assertions. You've managed to be entirely wrong in each and any assertion you made. I've actually supported with specifics what I said while you have been a rude disingenuous actor who uses political generalizations. You're a great example of what I talk about. HN always pretended to be polite and encourage discourse but when someone from reality came in an exposed a narrative, morally corrupt people like you would come down with the entitled arrogance and rudeness that can only be gained of not having to face reality.

M95D 4y ago

I really don't understand why you blame the government. They (the people) VOTED! What did you expect gov't to do? Ignore the vote?