4 ms·

One major annoyance with these e-scooters is their "take it from anywhere, leave it anywhere" rental model. Sure, it's practical for the user, but it litters t

One major annoyance with these e-scooters is their "take it from anywhere, leave it anywhere" rental model. Sure, it's practical for the user, but it litters the pavement for everyone else with scooters badly parked, sometimes even lying on their side on the floor, requiring teams of maintenance people to patrol the streets (with petrol trucks) and set them back up in an orderly fashion and grouped at strategic locations. Same thing goes for (e-)bike rentals. Paris also has a non-private bike rental service (Velib'), which uses fixed stations. You can still park the bike temporarily anywhere (eg: pop into a shop), but you have to return it to a station. The market supremacists might pile on in the replies, but having a well-subsidised, self-service public transport system with fixed stations is much neater in a tight city than a free-for-all model.

Sander_Marechal 4y ago
I agree. It's just e-scooter companies trying to externalize the cost of parking. Tragedy of the commons and all that...
HPsquared 4y ago
They have such great utility value that I think they're worth keeping, but should be regulated more. Things like parking should be controlled, and a crackdown on misuse of the scooters. But they can be incredibly handy.
bjackman 4y ago
My market-supremacist response: I wish that instead of banning them they just fixed the negative externalities: a system where anyone can report a poorly parked scooter to the city govt and the owner of the scooter receives a significant fine. That way the market will soon be forced to find a solution to parking enforcement, or stop renting out scooters. In the former case we keep the benefits of scooters. In the latter case, we learn that they aren't actually economically viable (Admittedly the focus in Paris seems to be more on bad driving than bad parking, which seems even easier to fix: just reduce the max speed and/or tie usage to a driver's license...)
- franky47 4y ago
  I'll raise you on the report and propose that scooters should report themselves when badly parked. Unless incentivised, nobody would report bad parking, or it could be abused and whatnot. Most of them already have a GPS system for fleet tracking (takes care of where it's parked), and an accelerometer would easily detect those laying on their side (plus fall detection for added marketing benefit).
  - midasuni 4y ago
    With lime I think you have to take a picture when parking to show it’s parked safely. If you fine companies for abandoning outside designated areas, what’s to stop random yobs (or competitors) moving the legally parked vehicle to a bad place then reporting it?
  - tuetuopay 4y ago
    They actually block parking outside of dedicated spots using the GPS. So you have to be in one to end the trip.
- arp242 4y ago
  Government stepping in with regulations and fines is of course not "market-supremacist" :-) Or: I think you and GP actually agree that we can't "just" leave it up to the market 100% and that we also need someone to look out for the public interest (which usually means the government).
bluecalm 4y ago
Wait till you see how parked cars litter sidewalks and streets. Every one of them takes as much space as tens of e-scooters as well. It's really annoying cars have that free-for-all start anywhere - leave it anywhere model.
- franky47 4y ago
  +1 on this. Interestingly, I use a car sharing service which has fixed stations (cars have designated parking spaces where they're picked from, and you leave your car where you found it), and I find myself multimodalling (walk or cycle) to their EV stations (they also have petrol cars). They also have a free-for-all offering where you can pick and park anywhere within the city limits, but I've never had a use for it - I only rent a car when hauling large enough things that wouldn't fit in a bus/tramway.
- nemetroid 4y ago
  I would wager Paris has very close to zero free street parking.
tuetuopay 4y ago
You cannot park the scooter anywhere outside of the dedicated scooter parking lots, and it is enforced by your phone's GPS. Lime (at least) is pretty strict about it. I once had to make a trip around the block to get my location "unstuck" because it located me 5m off the parking. And they even check the parkings are not overcrowded: if there are too many scooters in one, they'll prevent you from stopping the rental and tell to go find some other parking spot. Really, it's been at least a year, maybe two, I haven't seen a lime or something else parked willy-nilly on the sidewalk or the pavement. So yeah, in Paris, the end result is not much different from vélib, except you don't have the problem of "the thee stations around are empty and the fourth has only broken bikes".

Sander_Marechal 4y ago

I agree. It's just e-scooter companies trying to externalize the cost of parking. Tragedy of the commons and all that...

HPsquared 4y ago

They have such great utility value that I think they're worth keeping, but should be regulated more. Things like parking should be controlled, and a crackdown on misuse of the scooters. But they can be incredibly handy.

bjackman 4y ago

My market-supremacist response: I wish that instead of banning them they just fixed the negative externalities: a system where anyone can report a poorly parked scooter to the city govt and the owner of the scooter receives a significant fine. That way the market will soon be forced to find a solution to parking enforcement, or stop renting out scooters. In the former case we keep the benefits of scooters. In the latter case, we learn that they aren't actually economically viable (Admittedly the focus in Paris seems to be more on bad driving than bad parking, which seems even easier to fix: just reduce the max speed and/or tie usage to a driver's license...)

franky47 4y ago
I'll raise you on the report and propose that scooters should report themselves when badly parked. Unless incentivised, nobody would report bad parking, or it could be abused and whatnot. Most of them already have a GPS system for fleet tracking (takes care of where it's parked), and an accelerometer would easily detect those laying on their side (plus fall detection for added marketing benefit).
- midasuni 4y ago
  With lime I think you have to take a picture when parking to show it’s parked safely. If you fine companies for abandoning outside designated areas, what’s to stop random yobs (or competitors) moving the legally parked vehicle to a bad place then reporting it?
- tuetuopay 4y ago
  They actually block parking outside of dedicated spots using the GPS. So you have to be in one to end the trip.
arp242 4y ago
Government stepping in with regulations and fines is of course not "market-supremacist" :-) Or: I think you and GP actually agree that we can't "just" leave it up to the market 100% and that we also need someone to look out for the public interest (which usually means the government).

bluecalm 4y ago

Wait till you see how parked cars litter sidewalks and streets. Every one of them takes as much space as tens of e-scooters as well. It's really annoying cars have that free-for-all start anywhere - leave it anywhere model.

franky47 4y ago
+1 on this. Interestingly, I use a car sharing service which has fixed stations (cars have designated parking spaces where they're picked from, and you leave your car where you found it), and I find myself multimodalling (walk or cycle) to their EV stations (they also have petrol cars). They also have a free-for-all offering where you can pick and park anywhere within the city limits, but I've never had a use for it - I only rent a car when hauling large enough things that wouldn't fit in a bus/tramway.
nemetroid 4y ago
I would wager Paris has very close to zero free street parking.

tuetuopay 4y ago

You cannot park the scooter anywhere outside of the dedicated scooter parking lots, and it is enforced by your phone's GPS. Lime (at least) is pretty strict about it. I once had to make a trip around the block to get my location "unstuck" because it located me 5m off the parking. And they even check the parkings are not overcrowded: if there are too many scooters in one, they'll prevent you from stopping the rental and tell to go find some other parking spot. Really, it's been at least a year, maybe two, I haven't seen a lime or something else parked willy-nilly on the sidewalk or the pavement. So yeah, in Paris, the end result is not much different from vélib, except you don't have the problem of "the thee stations around are empty and the fourth has only broken bikes".