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The issue with Linux for me is how crude and unpolished the desktop environment is compared to windows and Mac. For the average user the desktop is everything a

The issue with Linux for me is how crude and unpolished the desktop environment is compared to windows and Mac. For the average user the desktop is everything and Linux lag way behind on that. Why are there basically only 2 choices on Linux and both have the same boring font?

neogodless 4y ago
I assume when you say two choices you mean Gnome and KDE? But there are other options like Xfce, and there are quite a few variants, like Cinnamon, MATE, i3, etc. [0] I still think Windows 10 looks and feels relatively polished (if you don't dig too deep and see just how many iterations they've gone through and still haven't gone back to fix.) I think Windows 11 feels a bit goofy - like they are trying for polish now, but it's in that modern overly spaced out and flat look that I can't seem to appreciate. I found Linux Mint Cinnamon to be quite nice, and KDE is really nice in my opinion. More consistent than Windows in some ways. [0] https://alternativeto.net/software/gnome/ https://alternativeto.net/software/gnome/
surgical_fire 4y ago
I much prefer the desktop environment of Mint + Cinnamon over Windows or Mac. Ditto, I am not an average user, but Windows was only really good on Windows 7, and I never really liked Mac OS (use it at work as a MCB is the laptop they issued for me)
dysoco 4y ago
Have you used Linux recently? Windows 11 and Windows 10 with the last updates as well are just awful in terms of UI; the UX works more or less alright, but many of the default applications, and specially the settings, control panel, etc. are just an inconsistent mess, awful flat UI without any kind of colors, etc. Mac is much nicer, nicer fonts, colors, overall look although personally I can't stand the UX too much (specially in terms of window management) apps are usually great tho. I'd very much rather use something like Kubuntu or Pop_OS, Cinnamon works fine as well, honestly nowadays they just work and are usually better off than Windows by default.
- deafpolygon 4y ago
  > the UX works more or less alright, but many of the default applications, and specially the settings, control panel, etc. are just an inconsistent mess, awful flat UI without any kind of colors, etc. The whole GTK2/3, now 4? and KDE, Plasma, Kirigami, what have you nowadays, isn't an inconsistent mess? I was using Linux (fedora 37) recently and it was not a consistent experience, either. If anything, W11 is more consistent across all applications even if the settings/control panel have a weird Jekyll/Hyde personality to it at times.
inciampati 4y ago
What elements of polish are you missing? Have you used gnome shell in the last five years? My desktop experience on Linux is so clean. Everything is a "windows" key press away. I hit they then enter the first characters of the program name. It's all composited and GPU accelerated too, and interaction is instantaneous. Almost anything that needs additional polish is on the web and looks the same on every computer... For me, what seems janky is stuff with the systems on MacOS (planned hardware obsolescence = jank, batteries that die after a predetermined number of years, expanding until they break the motherboard = jank) or the user treatment and configuration of Windows (the article in question gives a lovely example of windows jank). In short, being treated like a consumer = jank. I can't understand how anyone puts up with it, much less says "polished" when referring to it. But I'll admit I'm weird!
- pjmlp 4y ago
  Have you ever tried to develop GUI applications for GNOME versus macOS/Windows tooling?
  - wink 4y ago
    It's a bit of an exaggeration, but I've written the whole Linux application in the same time that I needed to get my build environment working on Windows. I still don't know how people can like developing on Windows, especially if it involves anything regarding C/C++ libs. (Not using a paid version of Visual Studio, fwiw).
    - pjmlp 4y ago
      The fact that you lack the experience with proper Windows development tooling kind of shows, it isn't an exageration, otherwise you would realize how stone age is anything Gtk+ related, specially after Glade was killed.
      - wink 4y ago
        I dunno, I've used Qt. You can argue that it's not "proper windows development tooling" and I can argue that 90% of apps I've written in my life have benefitted from being cross-platform. Happy to be corrected here, but I've seen most hobbyists not use Visual Studio because historically you had to pay for it in the first place, and it's only common between Windows-only devs, to no surprise.
guestbest 4y ago
To me a desktop is mostly determined by what can be done with a file browser and the file browsers that come with a Linux distribution (dolphins, thunder, etc) are much better than finder or explorer.

neogodless 4y ago

I assume when you say two choices you mean Gnome and KDE? But there are other options like Xfce, and there are quite a few variants, like Cinnamon, MATE, i3, etc. [0] I still think Windows 10 looks and feels relatively polished (if you don't dig too deep and see just how many iterations they've gone through and still haven't gone back to fix.) I think Windows 11 feels a bit goofy - like they are trying for polish now, but it's in that modern overly spaced out and flat look that I can't seem to appreciate. I found Linux Mint Cinnamon to be quite nice, and KDE is really nice in my opinion. More consistent than Windows in some ways. [0] https://alternativeto.net/software/gnome/ https://alternativeto.net/software/gnome/

surgical_fire 4y ago

I much prefer the desktop environment of Mint + Cinnamon over Windows or Mac. Ditto, I am not an average user, but Windows was only really good on Windows 7, and I never really liked Mac OS (use it at work as a MCB is the laptop they issued for me)

dysoco 4y ago

Have you used Linux recently? Windows 11 and Windows 10 with the last updates as well are just awful in terms of UI; the UX works more or less alright, but many of the default applications, and specially the settings, control panel, etc. are just an inconsistent mess, awful flat UI without any kind of colors, etc. Mac is much nicer, nicer fonts, colors, overall look although personally I can't stand the UX too much (specially in terms of window management) apps are usually great tho. I'd very much rather use something like Kubuntu or Pop_OS, Cinnamon works fine as well, honestly nowadays they just work and are usually better off than Windows by default.

deafpolygon 4y ago
> the UX works more or less alright, but many of the default applications, and specially the settings, control panel, etc. are just an inconsistent mess, awful flat UI without any kind of colors, etc. The whole GTK2/3, now 4? and KDE, Plasma, Kirigami, what have you nowadays, isn't an inconsistent mess? I was using Linux (fedora 37) recently and it was not a consistent experience, either. If anything, W11 is more consistent across all applications even if the settings/control panel have a weird Jekyll/Hyde personality to it at times.

inciampati 4y ago

What elements of polish are you missing? Have you used gnome shell in the last five years? My desktop experience on Linux is so clean. Everything is a "windows" key press away. I hit they then enter the first characters of the program name. It's all composited and GPU accelerated too, and interaction is instantaneous. Almost anything that needs additional polish is on the web and looks the same on every computer... For me, what seems janky is stuff with the systems on MacOS (planned hardware obsolescence = jank, batteries that die after a predetermined number of years, expanding until they break the motherboard = jank) or the user treatment and configuration of Windows (the article in question gives a lovely example of windows jank). In short, being treated like a consumer = jank. I can't understand how anyone puts up with it, much less says "polished" when referring to it. But I'll admit I'm weird!

pjmlp 4y ago
Have you ever tried to develop GUI applications for GNOME versus macOS/Windows tooling?
- wink 4y ago
  It's a bit of an exaggeration, but I've written the whole Linux application in the same time that I needed to get my build environment working on Windows. I still don't know how people can like developing on Windows, especially if it involves anything regarding C/C++ libs. (Not using a paid version of Visual Studio, fwiw).
  - pjmlp 4y ago
    The fact that you lack the experience with proper Windows development tooling kind of shows, it isn't an exageration, otherwise you would realize how stone age is anything Gtk+ related, specially after Glade was killed.
    - wink 4y ago
      I dunno, I've used Qt. You can argue that it's not "proper windows development tooling" and I can argue that 90% of apps I've written in my life have benefitted from being cross-platform. Happy to be corrected here, but I've seen most hobbyists not use Visual Studio because historically you had to pay for it in the first place, and it's only common between Windows-only devs, to no surprise.

guestbest 4y ago

To me a desktop is mostly determined by what can be done with a file browser and the file browsers that come with a Linux distribution (dolphins, thunder, etc) are much better than finder or explorer.