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I will not tolerate what @Zurrrrr writes "It's baffling to me that India is putting so much money into being part of the next space race, when they still have

I will not tolerate what @Zurrrrr writes "It's baffling to me that India is putting so much money into being part of the next space race, when they still have such vast and prominent problems on the ground. You could say that for many countries, but there is a difference in degree IMO." Said every racist and ignorant ever. You think we don't have people who make cost benefit analysis before investing in such projects? We don't have parliament and budget sessions? The payloads we deploy immensely help us socially and technologically advance. Do you know that? Ed tech itself got eGyanKosh, Swayam, NPTEL, private teachings on govt. platforms so cheap that by next year about a quarter million adults will be uplifted out of poverty. That funding is given to satellites launched by ISRO. Did you know that? Had it not been for ISRO, we wouldn't have had larger outreach of instant cash transfers and payments. Did you know that? Had it not been for ISRO we wouldn't be able to fight societal superstitions or bring in public health education drives let alone dumb down power play of society by caste and gender. Do you know that? That also includes targeted courses for farmers about endemic genetic problems, weather, pests to Artists about film-making. Did you know that? Even the money we get to deploy other western country's payloads makes people lift out of poverties in a single digit of percentage of populations in a city for every year! Do you know that? But no. A random pompous clueless stranger on the internet comes to an sweet intelligent discussion site and declares he is baffled and India should now hold a inter-ministerial meeting to stop space projects. These people have been everywhere from NYTIMES cartoonists to HN unfortunately. I don't understand how should one ban from this site either. You are not contributing to the intended discussion of this site relating to the link posted, but yourself. You just want to throw around how baffled you are and sleep back in your mother's basement.

HopenHeyHi 4y ago
[flagged]
golgappa 4y ago
[flagged]
jimsimmons 4y ago
US wants to go back to the moon to put the first woman and PoC on it lol. Talk about spending billions of dollars for a token image. Somehow when Murica does it we should all cheer for it as a great ray of hope for all humanity. Anyone else, there's a long line of "umm, actually..." guys. They just can't accept that a non communist, democratic country can compete with them
- 1024core 4y ago
  > US wants to go back to the moon ... meanwhile there are people shitting on the streets of San Francisco (seen with my own eyes), and people OD-ing (as in dying from drugs) on the streets of San Francisco, and homeless people camped on the sidewalks by the 1000s in cities like San Francisco and LA. And yet nobody bats an eye when America "wastes" money on going back to the moon.
  - AnonMO 4y ago
    People have been complaining about NASA for decades.In The decade of the apollo missions many people in the civil rights movement were against spending 20b to send someone to the moon and today those same arguments still stand and many people still voice them. Maybe your circle is to small and you haven’t been exposed to diverse opinions.
- systemvoltage 4y ago
  Space program has been taken over by DEI administrator class, just like every other institution.
djaychela 4y ago
When I see people make comments like that, I always wonder if they've done the maths of dividing the cost of whatever programme by the number of people in the country. Given India's population, it probably wouldn't amount to much per person, even if you could magically give it out.
- Zurrrrr 4y ago
  [flagged]
  - philonoist 4y ago
    " If women are empowered, lifted up and don't have to live in fear, that tends to result in huge gains for an economy." And what makes you think we don't do that already? Did you read monthly public health outcomes and human rights outcomes research either by third party or government ministers? Did you see no programs and collaborative efforts by NGOs and Government? Did you see no improvements in critiqued yearly and monthly reports of famous research journals like 'Economics and Political Weekly' and Ministry of Women and Child Development, Ministry of Health and family welfare, etc? What is your picture on comparative analysis of rape "endemic" across other factors normalized, like by country, by per capita, by development index, by any rank for that matter?
  - reacharavindh 4y ago
    I’m not going to argue to prove what is ignorant or not. But, I just want to point out the flaw in your thinking and hope that you would open your mind enough to think about it. By your argument, if India should stop investing in science and having its citizens explore space, and only focus on lifting people out of poverty or empower women, I’d love your take on the USA, the single biggest economy in the world, the mightiest superpower which could solve the problems of 1. People dying because of the healthcare system, or the school kids dying because of lack of gun control, or those living homeless in just a flick of its policy? Should the USA stop NASA for a couple of years until those problems are fixed? Should the USA stop all its road building projects until all its issues are solved? India, poor as it may be, has brought some wonders into the world of science, particularly space missions, at times launching missions that achieve similar results with orders of magnitude lower costs with truly innovative ways. Please don’t categorise people, science and innovation based on where it comes from.
Thorentis 4y ago
[flagged]
- shmde 4y ago
  People particularly bring the same dumb boring argument "Why do X when you can do Y ?" when India tries to accomplish something other than trying to bring it's citizens above poverty. It's like commenting why is NASA sending a probe to outer space instead of providing free healthcare for all in USA. You don't see this comment on every NASA achievement post do you ? Why should it be any different than when ISRO achieves something.
  - Thorentis 4y ago
    [flagged]
    - ClumsyPilot 4y ago
      San Francisco has job opening to collect human poop off sidewalks [1] Richest city in the richest country can't figure out toilets?! What a joke. You have lower life expectancy than Poland. Because you keep killing children, 80% of child deaths are from your obsession with guns or giant trucks. Get off your high horse https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6063397/San-Francisco-launching-poop-patrol-dedicated-cleaning-feces.html https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6063397/San-Francis...
- philonoist 4y ago
  Yes, it is racist. The suggesting you said was without a backup of resources and citations to provide any chance for a writer to educate himself and as well as educating readers. What exactly are these more important problems? And what subset of these problems are we neglecting? You think our civil service officers don't do cost benefit analysis? You think we don't have Finance commission to develop an algorithm and spread budgets accordingly? Racism is looking at us like we are dorks by race. To think that the above commentor has posed this novel question but not Indians only to do inefficient decision is racist and ignorance! I read Germany making a U turn with respect to Nuclear and fossil fuels. Everybody gives deep arguments as if I am sitting in the policy think tank. That is why I've come to HN. I see Russia investing in war, everybody gives deep arguments I feel like I am in a war room. That is why I've come to HN I read Australia investing in Hydrogen, Plutonium, Uranium, etc. I feel hope in the my children and a bit of excitement. That is why I've come to HN. I see India investing in space, nobody writes the how and why behind their "suggestions". Nobody quotes budget session of parliaments discussing this at length. Apparently it is enough to "suggest a country to do something" and not be called out for racism quoting nothing be it citations or build up logic behind the suggestions. As far as my rant, you are falling for tu-Quoque fallacy. At least my censure is acting like a reminder to be civil and focused to the purpose of this site, and has only conjured in reaction rather than prophylaxis or presumptuous preemptive warning. What did the racist OP's comment serve, except for my arse to heat up? "and yet you yourself contribute nothing but pejorative." What? I contribute articles and comments from 2014 and this articles is also my contribution. I was hoping at least 10 people would dwell upon this. I didn't contribute to the discussion? My bad. I apologize. But this doesn't take away my eligibility to slap idiots right on their heads when they try to contaminate a space I love. I need not get a lifetime moderator license for that, certainly not on my own contribution. So would you mind explaining what actually you want to say?
jsdeveloper 4y ago
you don't ban people for their opinions in free democracies, how so ever absurd and outrageous they may be. Probably you come from a country where people are banned for their views and opinions. But that is not what a free society does. No world leader is going to read any racist rant on internet and make decision out of it, so chill.
- morekozhambu 4y ago
  [dead]
- philonoist 4y ago
  [flagged]
  - Zurrrrr 4y ago
    [flagged]
    - philonoist 4y ago
      [flagged]
      - Zurrrrr 4y ago
        > It still makes you racist. No it doesn't. It just makes you incredibly insecure. It's not more complicated than that.
    - clocker 4y ago
      > that money could absolutely be spent better in other ways. Your opinions are childish so don’t really bother me. That said, ISRO earns money as well https://m.economictimes.com/news/science/isro-earns-279-million-in-forex-through-satellite-launches/articleshow/93159973.cms https://m.economictimes.com/news/science/isro-earns-279-mill...
    - imtringued 4y ago
      >that money could absolutely be spent better in other ways. It can't. The amount of money allocated to the space program is insignificant and doesn't move the needle. There are diminishing returns to putting more and more money into the same things. By investing a little into every sector you diversity and pick up the low hanging fruit.
greggsy 4y ago
Not to mention the skills and industrial development that comes with these mega projects. That sort of stimulation benefits other industries for generat.
Zurrrrr 4y ago
[flagged]
- philonoist 4y ago
  [flagged]
- unmole 4y ago
  > I won't bother responding further. Going by your comments, the level of discourse will probably improve.
- psnehanshu 4y ago
  >I have no time for patriotism or tribalism. While I'm aware we don't live in a single global society, that's what I believe our ideal should be (A kind of Star Trek society), and that's what I want to work towards. Petty tribalism is very much at odds with that. Tribalism has existed since day 1 of human civilization and it has shaped the world we live in today. Your ideal world is a bluff.
- unmole 4y ago
  > Instead, we have people jumping through hoops to deny things, and trying to provide links to disingenuously claim certain issues are not as serious as they are, or to try and falsely equivocate them to other countries like the US. On a post about a reusable launch vehicle, you posted a irrelvant comment about how rape was endemic in India. People refuted your assertion with facts and figures. > It's funny to see the sheer amount of people hurling insults at me, based on incorrect assumptions So, you are not going to acknowledge your incorrect assumptions? > There is nothing intelligent about choosing to take offense at a neutral statement, then resort to distractions and untruths, and to attempt to censor people from a discussion. Your statement was not even remotely neutral. Please point out these untruths. > I have no time for patriotism or tribalism. While I'm aware we don't live in a single global society, that's what I believe our ideal should be (A kind of Star Trek society), and that's what I want to work towards. Petty tribalism is very much at odds with that. On a cost basis, India's space program is probably the most efficient in the world. So, let's give up the petty tribalism, shut down all the other space programs and redirect all that funding to ISRO. That would be the best way towards a Star Trek future. > In any case, if my sentiment was wrong, then I would have appreciated an informative, challenging and productive discussion And I would have appreciated an informed and well thought out comment instead of a puerile low effort one. Yet here we are.
simonh 4y ago
I completely support India’s decision to develop a space program, and I’m a huge fan of the achievements of ISRO, it’s contribution to Indian society and the advances it’s made on a very constrained budget. The fact is though that any science or technology programme must be prepared to justify its existence and contribution to society. I’m right behind you in supporting that case, but it is entirely reasonable for that case to be questioned. The US space programme has been questioned in almost exactly the same terms since its inception, without any hint of a racist motive. If it’s reasonable to expect NASA to justify its existence on a cost benefit basis, I think it’s reasonable to question any space programme on that basis. I don't think it’s reasonable to infer racism in this case when there was no specifically racist content in the comment. If we’re going to convert skeptics into supporters, the way to do that is respectful reasoned argument, not impugning their motives for even asking the question.
- philonoist 4y ago
  You don't question an answer-to-the-same-question without bothering to read the said answer first, right? That is what is happening with @Zurrrrr guy. In fact, he is not questioning. He is just implying inefficiency and opinionating on inferior problem solving skills of India on things he won't cite his research on. That is what makes it racist. When US was cross questioned about cost benefit analysis and comparative budge analysis, it was promptly done so by NGOs and UN backing up with how that strategy is flawed. But US was hell bent on prestige of being first in space and that reply was apparent and open to criticism. There was no deeper prodding/questioning into the specifics or support of arguments by @Zurrrrr here. There was just a quick judgmental attitude which made me claim prejudice in him. I urge you read his comment again. Making someone specifically racist comment is not the bar to judge. Why would someone educated make it so blatant in 2023? Racists will always incorporate euphemisms and innuendos among many other tools to crystallize their thought of racism.
  - simonh 4y ago
    Yeah reading his other comments you have a point. How stopping the space programme would help solve ‘rape culture’ isn’t exactly obvious to me. Are there any countries that solved a sociological problem by not having a space programme? Seems daft, and quite possibly maliciously so.
7952 4y ago
The cost effectiveness of these kind of programs is really interesting. It is normal to assume that space is super difficult and this plays into the geeky pride we all have. It is literally rocket science! And then we all get depressed when they go a little over budget or are late. We compare the program to an idealised view of excellence that only exists in our heads. But compared to other human endeavours science and engineering is unreasonably effective. It can break through the mess of human conflict and pettiness that holds us back. It is a great mechanism for getting people to work together for a common cause and we desperately need that. The mission objective is secondary to that.
pncnmnp 4y ago
I'd like to shift the tone of this discussion from vitriolic to something more captivating. Why Explore Space? - https://lettersofnote.com/2012/08/06/why-explore-space/ https://lettersofnote.com/2012/08/06/why-explore-space/ Here is an interesting letter by Ernst Stuhlinger, then an associate director of science at NASA's MSFC, written to a nun in the 1970s. He explains the crucial role of space exploration in a country's growth. This topic sparked some engaging conversations on HN in 2012 and 2015: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4372563 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4372563 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8917045 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8917045
thunderbong 4y ago
You make good points. And regardless of how the person you're replying to commented, IMHO you should reduce the amount of snark in your reply. Otherwise, you're really stooping down to the same level.
- vineethkm 4y ago
  I heard this exactly how most Americans reacted to black people fighting for their rights.
- philonoist 4y ago
  Thanks man. It is because of people like you I grow matured. I will remember this to by heart.
somedude895 4y ago
> racist and ignorant > random pompous clueless stranger > sleep back in your mother's basement > sweet intelligent discussion site You're certainly not acting like you're interested in keeping this space "sweet and intelligent"
- philonoist 4y ago
  Well, my apologies. I became testy and had to blow off the steam. I felt like exploding. I can't be fighting a fellow bully and simultaneously be a student participating in group discussions in classroom when it comes to arseholes like the above. This one was the first or maybe second from my side since 2014. You see, I couldn't have imagined this rude surprise of racism at HN. It felt so personal, even though there is no abnormal attachment to my country, I felt I had to give him a good earfull. I have nothing against comments of criticism like these, even though coming from a fellow Indian, you see - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35407658 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35407658 It doesn't feel like I got blew by my own people reading that comment. It didn't knock the wind out of me. It didn't make me insecure.
  - HopenHeyHi 4y ago
    [flagged]
Aperocky 4y ago
I agree with your rational conclusion, India should continue to invest in science, technology and space. It's the way to go, more players in space the better. That said, the sentiment isn't unique to India, and NASA is questioned the same since forever. "Will not tolerate" isn't something that one should feel or write against an opinion, even when presented in a sarcastic way. Make fun of it, argue against it, or ignore it, after all India isn't going to stop its space program because someone in NYT published a cartoon.
- philonoist 4y ago
  Ugh, yeah. I will take your suggestion to heart man. Thanks. Make fun of it. Argue against it. Ignore it.
MPlus88 4y ago
[dead]
dang 4y ago
You posted well over a dozen flamewar comments to this thread and broke the site guidelines egregiously. We ban accounts that do that. I don't want to ban you, so if you'd please review https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and avoid this kind of thing in the future—regardless of how wrong someone is or you feel they are—we'd appreciate it. I understand how provocative nationalistic flamebait can be, but that's a reason to take a step back and consciously not take the bait. Otherwise we end up in a downward spiral, as happened here.

HopenHeyHi 4y ago

[flagged]

golgappa 4y ago

[flagged]

jimsimmons 4y ago

US wants to go back to the moon to put the first woman and PoC on it lol. Talk about spending billions of dollars for a token image. Somehow when Murica does it we should all cheer for it as a great ray of hope for all humanity. Anyone else, there's a long line of "umm, actually..." guys. They just can't accept that a non communist, democratic country can compete with them

1024core 4y ago
> US wants to go back to the moon ... meanwhile there are people shitting on the streets of San Francisco (seen with my own eyes), and people OD-ing (as in dying from drugs) on the streets of San Francisco, and homeless people camped on the sidewalks by the 1000s in cities like San Francisco and LA. And yet nobody bats an eye when America "wastes" money on going back to the moon.
- AnonMO 4y ago
  People have been complaining about NASA for decades.In The decade of the apollo missions many people in the civil rights movement were against spending 20b to send someone to the moon and today those same arguments still stand and many people still voice them. Maybe your circle is to small and you haven’t been exposed to diverse opinions.
systemvoltage 4y ago
Space program has been taken over by DEI administrator class, just like every other institution.

djaychela 4y ago

When I see people make comments like that, I always wonder if they've done the maths of dividing the cost of whatever programme by the number of people in the country. Given India's population, it probably wouldn't amount to much per person, even if you could magically give it out.

Zurrrrr 4y ago
[flagged]
- philonoist 4y ago
  " If women are empowered, lifted up and don't have to live in fear, that tends to result in huge gains for an economy." And what makes you think we don't do that already? Did you read monthly public health outcomes and human rights outcomes research either by third party or government ministers? Did you see no programs and collaborative efforts by NGOs and Government? Did you see no improvements in critiqued yearly and monthly reports of famous research journals like 'Economics and Political Weekly' and Ministry of Women and Child Development, Ministry of Health and family welfare, etc? What is your picture on comparative analysis of rape "endemic" across other factors normalized, like by country, by per capita, by development index, by any rank for that matter?
- reacharavindh 4y ago
  I’m not going to argue to prove what is ignorant or not. But, I just want to point out the flaw in your thinking and hope that you would open your mind enough to think about it. By your argument, if India should stop investing in science and having its citizens explore space, and only focus on lifting people out of poverty or empower women, I’d love your take on the USA, the single biggest economy in the world, the mightiest superpower which could solve the problems of 1. People dying because of the healthcare system, or the school kids dying because of lack of gun control, or those living homeless in just a flick of its policy? Should the USA stop NASA for a couple of years until those problems are fixed? Should the USA stop all its road building projects until all its issues are solved? India, poor as it may be, has brought some wonders into the world of science, particularly space missions, at times launching missions that achieve similar results with orders of magnitude lower costs with truly innovative ways. Please don’t categorise people, science and innovation based on where it comes from.

Thorentis 4y ago

[flagged]

shmde 4y ago
People particularly bring the same dumb boring argument "Why do X when you can do Y ?" when India tries to accomplish something other than trying to bring it's citizens above poverty. It's like commenting why is NASA sending a probe to outer space instead of providing free healthcare for all in USA. You don't see this comment on every NASA achievement post do you ? Why should it be any different than when ISRO achieves something.
- Thorentis 4y ago
  [flagged]
  - ClumsyPilot 4y ago
    San Francisco has job opening to collect human poop off sidewalks [1] Richest city in the richest country can't figure out toilets?! What a joke. You have lower life expectancy than Poland. Because you keep killing children, 80% of child deaths are from your obsession with guns or giant trucks. Get off your high horse https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6063397/San-Francisco-launching-poop-patrol-dedicated-cleaning-feces.html https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6063397/San-Francis...
philonoist 4y ago
Yes, it is racist. The suggesting you said was without a backup of resources and citations to provide any chance for a writer to educate himself and as well as educating readers. What exactly are these more important problems? And what subset of these problems are we neglecting? You think our civil service officers don't do cost benefit analysis? You think we don't have Finance commission to develop an algorithm and spread budgets accordingly? Racism is looking at us like we are dorks by race. To think that the above commentor has posed this novel question but not Indians only to do inefficient decision is racist and ignorance! I read Germany making a U turn with respect to Nuclear and fossil fuels. Everybody gives deep arguments as if I am sitting in the policy think tank. That is why I've come to HN. I see Russia investing in war, everybody gives deep arguments I feel like I am in a war room. That is why I've come to HN I read Australia investing in Hydrogen, Plutonium, Uranium, etc. I feel hope in the my children and a bit of excitement. That is why I've come to HN. I see India investing in space, nobody writes the how and why behind their "suggestions". Nobody quotes budget session of parliaments discussing this at length. Apparently it is enough to "suggest a country to do something" and not be called out for racism quoting nothing be it citations or build up logic behind the suggestions. As far as my rant, you are falling for tu-Quoque fallacy. At least my censure is acting like a reminder to be civil and focused to the purpose of this site, and has only conjured in reaction rather than prophylaxis or presumptuous preemptive warning. What did the racist OP's comment serve, except for my arse to heat up? "and yet you yourself contribute nothing but pejorative." What? I contribute articles and comments from 2014 and this articles is also my contribution. I was hoping at least 10 people would dwell upon this. I didn't contribute to the discussion? My bad. I apologize. But this doesn't take away my eligibility to slap idiots right on their heads when they try to contaminate a space I love. I need not get a lifetime moderator license for that, certainly not on my own contribution. So would you mind explaining what actually you want to say?

jsdeveloper 4y ago

you don't ban people for their opinions in free democracies, how so ever absurd and outrageous they may be. Probably you come from a country where people are banned for their views and opinions. But that is not what a free society does. No world leader is going to read any racist rant on internet and make decision out of it, so chill.

morekozhambu 4y ago
[dead]
philonoist 4y ago
[flagged]
- Zurrrrr 4y ago
  [flagged]
  - philonoist 4y ago
    [flagged]
    - Zurrrrr 4y ago
      > It still makes you racist. No it doesn't. It just makes you incredibly insecure. It's not more complicated than that.
  - clocker 4y ago
    > that money could absolutely be spent better in other ways. Your opinions are childish so don’t really bother me. That said, ISRO earns money as well https://m.economictimes.com/news/science/isro-earns-279-million-in-forex-through-satellite-launches/articleshow/93159973.cms https://m.economictimes.com/news/science/isro-earns-279-mill...
  - imtringued 4y ago
    >that money could absolutely be spent better in other ways. It can't. The amount of money allocated to the space program is insignificant and doesn't move the needle. There are diminishing returns to putting more and more money into the same things. By investing a little into every sector you diversity and pick up the low hanging fruit.

greggsy 4y ago

Not to mention the skills and industrial development that comes with these mega projects. That sort of stimulation benefits other industries for generat.

Zurrrrr 4y ago

[flagged]

philonoist 4y ago
[flagged]
unmole 4y ago
> I won't bother responding further. Going by your comments, the level of discourse will probably improve.
psnehanshu 4y ago
>I have no time for patriotism or tribalism. While I'm aware we don't live in a single global society, that's what I believe our ideal should be (A kind of Star Trek society), and that's what I want to work towards. Petty tribalism is very much at odds with that. Tribalism has existed since day 1 of human civilization and it has shaped the world we live in today. Your ideal world is a bluff.
unmole 4y ago
> Instead, we have people jumping through hoops to deny things, and trying to provide links to disingenuously claim certain issues are not as serious as they are, or to try and falsely equivocate them to other countries like the US. On a post about a reusable launch vehicle, you posted a irrelvant comment about how rape was endemic in India. People refuted your assertion with facts and figures. > It's funny to see the sheer amount of people hurling insults at me, based on incorrect assumptions So, you are not going to acknowledge your incorrect assumptions? > There is nothing intelligent about choosing to take offense at a neutral statement, then resort to distractions and untruths, and to attempt to censor people from a discussion. Your statement was not even remotely neutral. Please point out these untruths. > I have no time for patriotism or tribalism. While I'm aware we don't live in a single global society, that's what I believe our ideal should be (A kind of Star Trek society), and that's what I want to work towards. Petty tribalism is very much at odds with that. On a cost basis, India's space program is probably the most efficient in the world. So, let's give up the petty tribalism, shut down all the other space programs and redirect all that funding to ISRO. That would be the best way towards a Star Trek future. > In any case, if my sentiment was wrong, then I would have appreciated an informative, challenging and productive discussion And I would have appreciated an informed and well thought out comment instead of a puerile low effort one. Yet here we are.

simonh 4y ago

I completely support India’s decision to develop a space program, and I’m a huge fan of the achievements of ISRO, it’s contribution to Indian society and the advances it’s made on a very constrained budget. The fact is though that any science or technology programme must be prepared to justify its existence and contribution to society. I’m right behind you in supporting that case, but it is entirely reasonable for that case to be questioned. The US space programme has been questioned in almost exactly the same terms since its inception, without any hint of a racist motive. If it’s reasonable to expect NASA to justify its existence on a cost benefit basis, I think it’s reasonable to question any space programme on that basis. I don't think it’s reasonable to infer racism in this case when there was no specifically racist content in the comment. If we’re going to convert skeptics into supporters, the way to do that is respectful reasoned argument, not impugning their motives for even asking the question.

philonoist 4y ago
You don't question an answer-to-the-same-question without bothering to read the said answer first, right? That is what is happening with @Zurrrrr guy. In fact, he is not questioning. He is just implying inefficiency and opinionating on inferior problem solving skills of India on things he won't cite his research on. That is what makes it racist. When US was cross questioned about cost benefit analysis and comparative budge analysis, it was promptly done so by NGOs and UN backing up with how that strategy is flawed. But US was hell bent on prestige of being first in space and that reply was apparent and open to criticism. There was no deeper prodding/questioning into the specifics or support of arguments by @Zurrrrr here. There was just a quick judgmental attitude which made me claim prejudice in him. I urge you read his comment again. Making someone specifically racist comment is not the bar to judge. Why would someone educated make it so blatant in 2023? Racists will always incorporate euphemisms and innuendos among many other tools to crystallize their thought of racism.
- simonh 4y ago
  Yeah reading his other comments you have a point. How stopping the space programme would help solve ‘rape culture’ isn’t exactly obvious to me. Are there any countries that solved a sociological problem by not having a space programme? Seems daft, and quite possibly maliciously so.

7952 4y ago

The cost effectiveness of these kind of programs is really interesting. It is normal to assume that space is super difficult and this plays into the geeky pride we all have. It is literally rocket science! And then we all get depressed when they go a little over budget or are late. We compare the program to an idealised view of excellence that only exists in our heads. But compared to other human endeavours science and engineering is unreasonably effective. It can break through the mess of human conflict and pettiness that holds us back. It is a great mechanism for getting people to work together for a common cause and we desperately need that. The mission objective is secondary to that.

pncnmnp 4y ago

I'd like to shift the tone of this discussion from vitriolic to something more captivating. Why Explore Space? - https://lettersofnote.com/2012/08/06/why-explore-space/ https://lettersofnote.com/2012/08/06/why-explore-space/ Here is an interesting letter by Ernst Stuhlinger, then an associate director of science at NASA's MSFC, written to a nun in the 1970s. He explains the crucial role of space exploration in a country's growth. This topic sparked some engaging conversations on HN in 2012 and 2015: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4372563 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4372563 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8917045 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8917045

thunderbong 4y ago

You make good points. And regardless of how the person you're replying to commented, IMHO you should reduce the amount of snark in your reply. Otherwise, you're really stooping down to the same level.

vineethkm 4y ago
I heard this exactly how most Americans reacted to black people fighting for their rights.
philonoist 4y ago
Thanks man. It is because of people like you I grow matured. I will remember this to by heart.

somedude895 4y ago

> racist and ignorant > random pompous clueless stranger > sleep back in your mother's basement > sweet intelligent discussion site You're certainly not acting like you're interested in keeping this space "sweet and intelligent"

philonoist 4y ago
Well, my apologies. I became testy and had to blow off the steam. I felt like exploding. I can't be fighting a fellow bully and simultaneously be a student participating in group discussions in classroom when it comes to arseholes like the above. This one was the first or maybe second from my side since 2014. You see, I couldn't have imagined this rude surprise of racism at HN. It felt so personal, even though there is no abnormal attachment to my country, I felt I had to give him a good earfull. I have nothing against comments of criticism like these, even though coming from a fellow Indian, you see - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35407658 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35407658 It doesn't feel like I got blew by my own people reading that comment. It didn't knock the wind out of me. It didn't make me insecure.
- HopenHeyHi 4y ago
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Aperocky 4y ago

I agree with your rational conclusion, India should continue to invest in science, technology and space. It's the way to go, more players in space the better. That said, the sentiment isn't unique to India, and NASA is questioned the same since forever. "Will not tolerate" isn't something that one should feel or write against an opinion, even when presented in a sarcastic way. Make fun of it, argue against it, or ignore it, after all India isn't going to stop its space program because someone in NYT published a cartoon.

philonoist 4y ago
Ugh, yeah. I will take your suggestion to heart man. Thanks. Make fun of it. Argue against it. Ignore it.

MPlus88 4y ago

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dang 4y ago

You posted well over a dozen flamewar comments to this thread and broke the site guidelines egregiously. We ban accounts that do that. I don't want to ban you, so if you'd please review https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and avoid this kind of thing in the future—regardless of how wrong someone is or you feel they are—we'd appreciate it. I understand how provocative nationalistic flamebait can be, but that's a reason to take a step back and consciously not take the bait. Otherwise we end up in a downward spiral, as happened here.