4 ms·

I'm always surprised that 3D printing isn't making faster progress. The print quality of these cheap(ish) FDM printers is tbh not good. But it's been like this

I'm always surprised that 3D printing isn't making faster progress. The print quality of these cheap(ish) FDM printers is tbh not good. But it's been like this for nearly a decade now. Have we really reached the global maximum in performance for this price point? I refuse to believe that, since coming here has basically been just local hill climbing since FDM was cheap enough for home use. But where is the innovation? Where are the alternatives? Is there simply not enough money in cheap 3D printing to justify investment?

radomir_cernoch 4y ago
We have to wait for next-gen high-end printers. Pricing of current-gen tech will be under pressure. With Voron/Bambu lab/Prusa XL, the next-gen is arriving right now. Let's see...
wincy 4y ago
I think limiting to FDM printers is a mistake these days, as resin printers have exploded in visual fidelity and the MSLA (using pixels on a monochrome LCD to mask light to print the whole layer simultaneously by curing a UV sensitive resin) printers make hands down better looking prints. If you need functional parts as well there are advances in engineering resins designed for that (although they’re still very pricy compared to PLA). For art pieces I often print using a mixture of the two then join them together, such as a bust with the head, I’ll make the head in resin and the body in FDM. The printers are dead simple to use too compared to all the hassle of FDM printing. Very few moving parts means very few opportunities for the myriad mistakes that seem inherent in FDM printing.
- bluescrn 4y ago
  Resin printers aren’t ‘dead simple’, as you’re dealing with fairly nasty chemicals in liquid form, and have to deal with cleaning/curing steps that aren’t needed with FDM. The results can be nice, but they may not be the best choice for many users.
- zokier 4y ago
  While sla has some advantages over fdm, I definitely would not call it less hassle. Handling liquid resin is more hassle than spools of filament, and sla prints need cleaning and curing steps while fdm prints can be usable straight out of printer. Finally multi-material fdm allows you to use soluable supports, making post-processing again easier.
- bmitc 4y ago
  Don't resin printers use quite toxic materials, though?
  - imtringued 4y ago
    The problem isn't toxicity, the problem is that they cure under your skin if you get them on you. Your immune system starts recognizing it as a foreign body and suddenly you develop an allergy against the resin which can result in quite severe symptoms.
  - hooverd 4y ago
    Yes. I think the dangers of resin printing are undersold. The SDSes you got are bare bones. They off gas a lot of VOCs, and you have a lifetime epoxy sensitivity which only gets worse. You see it in people who work with regular epoxies. That said, they're not acutely dangerous unless you accidentally cure some on your skin.
drtgh 4y ago
> I'm always surprised that 3D printing isn't making faster progress. I don't own a 3D printer, but I wonder why pellet extruders are not a standard for feeding these FDM machines. This apparent lack of interest has an effect on the price of the excessively overpriced and seemingly amateurish pellet extruders that seem to exist at the moment (of which there seem to be only two or three models?). We are talking about a significant price difference in the cost of consumables in pellet form, humidity of the material and mixing control, and the ability to reuse material from failed prints or everyday items, among the first things that cross my mind. it's been like this for nearly a decade as you said, and the common extruder usually doesn't even include an acceleration sensor.
dale_glass 4y ago
I think 3D printers are close to the useful maximum. Most problems they have left are expensive to solve. * One problem is rigidity/vibration. This is solved by lots of rigid mass, which isn't consumer friendly. It makes for a big, heavy, expensive machine. * Another problem is the lack of feedback. This is solved by having accurate sensing of positioning. This costs money. * Another problem is temperature management. This requires an enclosure and parts that don't mind the heat. This takes space and costs money. * Another problem is extrusion consistency. This either requires very accurately manufactured plastic as an input, or excellent sensing of what's going into the extruder. This also costs money. And most of these are polish on top. Like you can drop $700 on a very decent printer, or you could spend $5000 on one that mostly does the same thing, except is less fiddly because it's got a lot more steel and sensors in it. That makes sense if you're running a business, not so much if you rarely want to make stuff out of plastic. Some of these are being slowly addressed in quite unorthodox ways. Eg, some sensing issues are being addressed with fancy motor drivers that can tell when the motor has gotten stuck. There's also that resin gets way better precision and fixes many of these issues for way cheaper. It's got its own downsides of course, but it does mean that the amount of people who really need a very solid FDM printer is smaller than you might think.

radomir_cernoch 4y ago

We have to wait for next-gen high-end printers. Pricing of current-gen tech will be under pressure. With Voron/Bambu lab/Prusa XL, the next-gen is arriving right now. Let's see...

wincy 4y ago

I think limiting to FDM printers is a mistake these days, as resin printers have exploded in visual fidelity and the MSLA (using pixels on a monochrome LCD to mask light to print the whole layer simultaneously by curing a UV sensitive resin) printers make hands down better looking prints. If you need functional parts as well there are advances in engineering resins designed for that (although they’re still very pricy compared to PLA). For art pieces I often print using a mixture of the two then join them together, such as a bust with the head, I’ll make the head in resin and the body in FDM. The printers are dead simple to use too compared to all the hassle of FDM printing. Very few moving parts means very few opportunities for the myriad mistakes that seem inherent in FDM printing.

bluescrn 4y ago
Resin printers aren’t ‘dead simple’, as you’re dealing with fairly nasty chemicals in liquid form, and have to deal with cleaning/curing steps that aren’t needed with FDM. The results can be nice, but they may not be the best choice for many users.
zokier 4y ago
While sla has some advantages over fdm, I definitely would not call it less hassle. Handling liquid resin is more hassle than spools of filament, and sla prints need cleaning and curing steps while fdm prints can be usable straight out of printer. Finally multi-material fdm allows you to use soluable supports, making post-processing again easier.
bmitc 4y ago
Don't resin printers use quite toxic materials, though?
- imtringued 4y ago
  The problem isn't toxicity, the problem is that they cure under your skin if you get them on you. Your immune system starts recognizing it as a foreign body and suddenly you develop an allergy against the resin which can result in quite severe symptoms.
- hooverd 4y ago
  Yes. I think the dangers of resin printing are undersold. The SDSes you got are bare bones. They off gas a lot of VOCs, and you have a lifetime epoxy sensitivity which only gets worse. You see it in people who work with regular epoxies. That said, they're not acutely dangerous unless you accidentally cure some on your skin.

drtgh 4y ago

> I'm always surprised that 3D printing isn't making faster progress. I don't own a 3D printer, but I wonder why pellet extruders are not a standard for feeding these FDM machines. This apparent lack of interest has an effect on the price of the excessively overpriced and seemingly amateurish pellet extruders that seem to exist at the moment (of which there seem to be only two or three models?). We are talking about a significant price difference in the cost of consumables in pellet form, humidity of the material and mixing control, and the ability to reuse material from failed prints or everyday items, among the first things that cross my mind. it's been like this for nearly a decade as you said, and the common extruder usually doesn't even include an acceleration sensor.

dale_glass 4y ago

I think 3D printers are close to the useful maximum. Most problems they have left are expensive to solve. * One problem is rigidity/vibration. This is solved by lots of rigid mass, which isn't consumer friendly. It makes for a big, heavy, expensive machine. * Another problem is the lack of feedback. This is solved by having accurate sensing of positioning. This costs money. * Another problem is temperature management. This requires an enclosure and parts that don't mind the heat. This takes space and costs money. * Another problem is extrusion consistency. This either requires very accurately manufactured plastic as an input, or excellent sensing of what's going into the extruder. This also costs money. And most of these are polish on top. Like you can drop $700 on a very decent printer, or you could spend $5000 on one that mostly does the same thing, except is less fiddly because it's got a lot more steel and sensors in it. That makes sense if you're running a business, not so much if you rarely want to make stuff out of plastic. Some of these are being slowly addressed in quite unorthodox ways. Eg, some sensing issues are being addressed with fancy motor drivers that can tell when the motor has gotten stuck. There's also that resin gets way better precision and fixes many of these issues for way cheaper. It's got its own downsides of course, but it does mean that the amount of people who really need a very solid FDM printer is smaller than you might think.