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Maybe military service could help some of these folks out of their unfortunate situation, given a longer training period and proper support.

by meling 4y ago

toomuchtodo 4y ago
The Marines slimmed my brother down but gave him a variety of mental health issues. I preferred him overweight, happy, and more functional. These are self inflicted wounds, high level. They don’t qualify because of the system we’ve built. Want healthy candidates for soldiers? Optimize for affordable nutrition and universal healthcare/mental health access [1] [2] [3] [4]. Don’t? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Rampant obesity rates and drug use continues. [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30908249 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30908249 [2] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35385503 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35385503 [3] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35365440 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35365440 [4] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35039709 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35039709
- Apocryphon 4y ago
  I wonder how service in the National Guard or Coast Guard compares to the other branches. Or even the Air Force.
- CSMastermind 4y ago
  Everyone has their own experiences but I will say that joining the Marines was the best thing that ever happened to me and I would openly recommend it to any young man.
  - toomuchtodo 4y ago
    Quite literally survivorship bias. Anecdotes aside, the statistics are damning. https://stopsoldiersuicide.org/vet-stats https://stopsoldiersuicide.org/vet-stats > Over 40,000 veterans are homeless on any given night > Veterans are at 57% higher risk of suicide than those who haven't served. > "Depending on branch, up to 31% of service members develop PTSD after returning from combat." ; "The rate of suicide for veterans in the LGBTQ+ community is up to 7x higher than for non-LGBTQ+ veterans." ; "More than 40% of female veterans report experiencing military sexual harassment or military sexual trauma." https://www.nytimes.com/2021/06/22/us/911-suicide-rate-veterans.html https://www.nytimes.com/2021/06/22/us/911-suicide-rate-veter... > "Suicides among post-9/11 veterans are four times as high as combat deaths, a new study finds." > Since 2001, more than 114,000 veterans have died by suicide (first citation link indicates this is now 125k+) You would recommend something that leads to these outcomes? To young adults?
    - BobbyJo 4y ago
      Those numbers don't mean much in isolation. 81% of women broadly experience sexual harassment in their lifetimes. Veterinarians are 400% more likely to commit suicide than general population. You have to put the risks of serving in context. Of course being a part of a military carries more risks than most/all desk jobs, but it's not the worst thing ever and helps a lot of people. I have an uncle that has a great life because service, and a half-brother that hated it and washed out barely worse for wear. Anecdotes are just as good as random stats without context.
    - lurquer 4y ago
      > You would recommend something that leads to these outcomes? An inability to provide for oneself or to self-motivate are factors that lead to enlistment. You have it backwards. For the most part — particularly the Army — the service is very expensive daycare for would-be homeless bums.
      - BobbyJo 4y ago
        > For the most part — particularly the Army — the service is very expensive daycare for would-be homeless bums. It's unfortunate you feel that way about young men and women who are looking for direction and a path to a better future. Whether or not it works out for them, most people join the military expecting to work hard and get something in return, which doesn't conjure "bum" to me.
    - remarkEon 4y ago
      The United States made a choice to have a contract military after Vietnam, under Nixon - the "All Volunteer Force". We could revert to a national draft, which is my preference, for National Defense. I was in the Army and deployed to Afghanistan and have my own issues and my friends (dead and alive) have their own as well. I agree with you if your point is that the US Government doesn't do enough for veterans. In a morbid way, I understand why suicide is so high, because we fought those wars for mostly nothing.
      - landemva 4y ago
vkou 4y ago
Whatever health issues you may or may not have had before joining the military, it's often quite happy to give you a few new ones before you're out. Exposure to toxic chemicals, PTSD, or combat injuries, take your pick.

Maybe military service could help some of these folks out of their unfortunate situation, given a longer training period and proper support.

by meling 4y ago

Maybe military service could help some of these folks out of their unfortunate situation, given a longer training period and proper support.

toomuchtodo 4y ago

The Marines slimmed my brother down but gave him a variety of mental health issues. I preferred him overweight, happy, and more functional. These are self inflicted wounds, high level. They don’t qualify because of the system we’ve built. Want healthy candidates for soldiers? Optimize for affordable nutrition and universal healthcare/mental health access [1] [2] [3] [4]. Don’t? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Rampant obesity rates and drug use continues. [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30908249 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30908249 [2] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35385503 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35385503 [3] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35365440 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35365440 [4] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35039709 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35039709

Apocryphon 4y ago
I wonder how service in the National Guard or Coast Guard compares to the other branches. Or even the Air Force.
CSMastermind 4y ago
Everyone has their own experiences but I will say that joining the Marines was the best thing that ever happened to me and I would openly recommend it to any young man.
- toomuchtodo 4y ago
  Quite literally survivorship bias. Anecdotes aside, the statistics are damning. https://stopsoldiersuicide.org/vet-stats https://stopsoldiersuicide.org/vet-stats > Over 40,000 veterans are homeless on any given night > Veterans are at 57% higher risk of suicide than those who haven't served. > "Depending on branch, up to 31% of service members develop PTSD after returning from combat." ; "The rate of suicide for veterans in the LGBTQ+ community is up to 7x higher than for non-LGBTQ+ veterans." ; "More than 40% of female veterans report experiencing military sexual harassment or military sexual trauma." https://www.nytimes.com/2021/06/22/us/911-suicide-rate-veterans.html https://www.nytimes.com/2021/06/22/us/911-suicide-rate-veter... > "Suicides among post-9/11 veterans are four times as high as combat deaths, a new study finds." > Since 2001, more than 114,000 veterans have died by suicide (first citation link indicates this is now 125k+) You would recommend something that leads to these outcomes? To young adults?
  - BobbyJo 4y ago
    Those numbers don't mean much in isolation. 81% of women broadly experience sexual harassment in their lifetimes. Veterinarians are 400% more likely to commit suicide than general population. You have to put the risks of serving in context. Of course being a part of a military carries more risks than most/all desk jobs, but it's not the worst thing ever and helps a lot of people. I have an uncle that has a great life because service, and a half-brother that hated it and washed out barely worse for wear. Anecdotes are just as good as random stats without context.
  - lurquer 4y ago
    > You would recommend something that leads to these outcomes? An inability to provide for oneself or to self-motivate are factors that lead to enlistment. You have it backwards. For the most part — particularly the Army — the service is very expensive daycare for would-be homeless bums.
    - BobbyJo 4y ago
      > For the most part — particularly the Army — the service is very expensive daycare for would-be homeless bums. It's unfortunate you feel that way about young men and women who are looking for direction and a path to a better future. Whether or not it works out for them, most people join the military expecting to work hard and get something in return, which doesn't conjure "bum" to me.
  - remarkEon 4y ago
    The United States made a choice to have a contract military after Vietnam, under Nixon - the "All Volunteer Force". We could revert to a national draft, which is my preference, for National Defense. I was in the Army and deployed to Afghanistan and have my own issues and my friends (dead and alive) have their own as well. I agree with you if your point is that the US Government doesn't do enough for veterans. In a morbid way, I understand why suicide is so high, because we fought those wars for mostly nothing.
    - landemva 4y ago

vkou 4y ago

Whatever health issues you may or may not have had before joining the military, it's often quite happy to give you a few new ones before you're out. Exposure to toxic chemicals, PTSD, or combat injuries, take your pick.