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People are always so quick to bring this up as if it's a gotcha, but it's not. You spend roughly half of your waking hours working. Do you really want to spend

People are always so quick to bring this up as if it's a gotcha, but it's not. You spend roughly half of your waking hours working. Do you really want to spend that much time isolated, only interacting with other people through screens?

kadoban 4y ago
Yes, absolutely. I realize that not everybody does though.
- ryandrake 4y ago
  The thread proves there is no right answer. Some people crave in-office work and face-to-face interaction, some people prefer working from home with interaction with non-coworkers, and some people prefer working from home in isolation. This isn’t a race to find the right way and prove the others wrong! Personally, since going remote and moving out to the boonies, I have had some weeks where I never even came within 100 meters of anyone other than my family, and it was absolutely glorious! Treating “society” as optional is amazing and liberating. Obviously not everyone shares this outlook and that’s ok!
  - re-thc 4y ago
    Or rather there's more to it. Do people really prefer working from the office or do they just want to escape and dump their responsibilities on their other half or family in general? For those that have kids - who picks them up if you're in the office? Is your partner forced not to work or remote so you get to go in? For those that have older family to look after, again who does it? Or who does the housework etc? There was an earlier discussion on why open source is mostly male dominated... well guess why...
    - deleted 4y ago
      [deleted]
    - RestlessMind 4y ago
      Picking up kids - happens past 5pm typically with afterschool or daycare. Looking after older family and housework - how can you do it if you are working? Unless you mean checking in on someone old every few hours or starting your laundry, and not some time-consuming chore.
      - re-thc 4y ago
        It could be anything. 1 person said they trash talk with coworkers during lunch. Perhaps instead we could have washed the dashes or started the washing machine or the laundry as you say. You can collect the parcel. Lots of small jobs. Or when you aren't "working" in the office what do you do? Go over to a coworker and talk about "non-work"? Are you actually "working" intensively every minute? Maybe read up on the studies or even listen to women that have had to do household work whilst working from home? What do you mean how? Good question. How do they survive when such men have forced it all on them and pretend it is nothing?
        RestlessMind 4y ago
        Trash talking or having coffee with colleagues not doing work still ends up benefiting the company as it helps create good bonds. Google famously offered all the amenities on campus since it wanted employees to interact with each other and spwan new ideas. It worked extremely well for them (first hand experience, btw. I was there). > women that have had to do household work whilst working from home? I don't think women should be doing household work whilst working from home either. So no idea what you are trying to argue, unless you want coasting jobs which pay you a lot to just be at home and do your housework or childcare. That ain't gonna happen.
        re-thc 4y ago
        > I don't think women should be doing household work whilst working from home either. Then magic happens? Who does it? > It worked extremely well for them So did we have 2 Googles where 1 did what you said and 1 didn't? Otherwise how are you drawing this conclusion to what led to its success? Maybe this is 1 part of the puzzle but it might not have been the deciding factor. Also who says that if they all went remote and Google offered the tools for their employees to bond online that it would not work? All you are saying is it's worked 1 way so it must be better than the other way because of some fear of the unknown? > That ain't gonna happen. It's pretty sad that your view of work from home = no work at all. So if anyone puts in the same amount of work hours whether it's 9-5 or 9-10 + 11-8 or whatever the balance is what's the difference? All you do is attack people that follow a different schedule and call them coasting?
waboremo 4y ago
Alternatively, question why we spend so much time "working". We do not work 8 hours, but our schedules are set that way. We're only working ~3 hours per day, the rest is mostly fluff. Give people back those 5 hours and you've got a very different answer than "force people into the office just so they have time to socialize".
Nursie 4y ago
Little different to how it often played out in the office, but minus the politics and the few odious characters who make office life so unbearably banal. I’d rather do my socialising in the local community, head out to grab a sandwich from a local business, and not have to spend half of my remaining waking hours travelling to and from a place I don’t really want to be in the first place.
lotsoweiners 4y ago
Sure. When I worked in the office I mostly communicated through IM or email.
FpUser 4y ago
>"Do you really want to spend that much time isolated, only interacting with other people through screens?" Absolutely. And I do not need to be "interacting" when I am working. There is a chat / email which I would read at my convenience. In case of emergency there are calls.
prepend 4y ago
> Do you really want to spend that much time isolated, only interacting with other people through screens? Yes. Also, the choice is made for me. I work in software and data and everyone I work with is digital whether I’m in the office or home or Timbuktu. So I don’t really have a decision. Every day my “team” is in multiple counties and time zones. There’s no way to spend time with them every day in person. Unless I want to say hello to security guards and chitchat with work strangers I’d rather spend that time with other people. I guess there are some industries where teams can be in the same room and building. I don’t work in such an organization and I like my job. I don’t feel isolated.
- abeppu 4y ago
  Yes! People trying to highlight the downsides of distanced work keep ignoring this important point. For a bunch of us, even pre-pandemic and working from _an_ office teams were often split across multiple offices, so every meeting already involved a video call. Today, it's _easier_ for me to have an unscheduled sync with a teammate because I can immediately hop on a zoom call from my private home office. Before the pandemic, I had to first try to find an unused conference room or phone booth (because having calls in the open-plan office was disruptive). Sometimes, when there was no good space available, I'd end up standing holding a laptop (and thus unable to take any notes) in the stairwell, which had less consistent wifi signal. If a meeting runs long, we don't have to scramble as we're kicked out of rooms by the next scheduled group. And scheduling larger group meetings isn't limited by the ability to reserve multiple large conference rooms across multiple offices. People trying to tell me that I'd be more productive from the office are so far unwilling to commit to providing an office which doesn't waste my time on this nonsense.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]

kadoban 4y ago

Yes, absolutely. I realize that not everybody does though.

ryandrake 4y ago
The thread proves there is no right answer. Some people crave in-office work and face-to-face interaction, some people prefer working from home with interaction with non-coworkers, and some people prefer working from home in isolation. This isn’t a race to find the right way and prove the others wrong! Personally, since going remote and moving out to the boonies, I have had some weeks where I never even came within 100 meters of anyone other than my family, and it was absolutely glorious! Treating “society” as optional is amazing and liberating. Obviously not everyone shares this outlook and that’s ok!
- re-thc 4y ago
  Or rather there's more to it. Do people really prefer working from the office or do they just want to escape and dump their responsibilities on their other half or family in general? For those that have kids - who picks them up if you're in the office? Is your partner forced not to work or remote so you get to go in? For those that have older family to look after, again who does it? Or who does the housework etc? There was an earlier discussion on why open source is mostly male dominated... well guess why...
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
  - RestlessMind 4y ago
    Picking up kids - happens past 5pm typically with afterschool or daycare. Looking after older family and housework - how can you do it if you are working? Unless you mean checking in on someone old every few hours or starting your laundry, and not some time-consuming chore.
    - re-thc 4y ago
      It could be anything. 1 person said they trash talk with coworkers during lunch. Perhaps instead we could have washed the dashes or started the washing machine or the laundry as you say. You can collect the parcel. Lots of small jobs. Or when you aren't "working" in the office what do you do? Go over to a coworker and talk about "non-work"? Are you actually "working" intensively every minute? Maybe read up on the studies or even listen to women that have had to do household work whilst working from home? What do you mean how? Good question. How do they survive when such men have forced it all on them and pretend it is nothing?
      - RestlessMind 4y ago
        Trash talking or having coffee with colleagues not doing work still ends up benefiting the company as it helps create good bonds. Google famously offered all the amenities on campus since it wanted employees to interact with each other and spwan new ideas. It worked extremely well for them (first hand experience, btw. I was there). > women that have had to do household work whilst working from home? I don't think women should be doing household work whilst working from home either. So no idea what you are trying to argue, unless you want coasting jobs which pay you a lot to just be at home and do your housework or childcare. That ain't gonna happen.
        re-thc 4y ago
        > I don't think women should be doing household work whilst working from home either. Then magic happens? Who does it? > It worked extremely well for them So did we have 2 Googles where 1 did what you said and 1 didn't? Otherwise how are you drawing this conclusion to what led to its success? Maybe this is 1 part of the puzzle but it might not have been the deciding factor. Also who says that if they all went remote and Google offered the tools for their employees to bond online that it would not work? All you are saying is it's worked 1 way so it must be better than the other way because of some fear of the unknown? > That ain't gonna happen. It's pretty sad that your view of work from home = no work at all. So if anyone puts in the same amount of work hours whether it's 9-5 or 9-10 + 11-8 or whatever the balance is what's the difference? All you do is attack people that follow a different schedule and call them coasting?

waboremo 4y ago

Alternatively, question why we spend so much time "working". We do not work 8 hours, but our schedules are set that way. We're only working ~3 hours per day, the rest is mostly fluff. Give people back those 5 hours and you've got a very different answer than "force people into the office just so they have time to socialize".

Nursie 4y ago

Little different to how it often played out in the office, but minus the politics and the few odious characters who make office life so unbearably banal. I’d rather do my socialising in the local community, head out to grab a sandwich from a local business, and not have to spend half of my remaining waking hours travelling to and from a place I don’t really want to be in the first place.

lotsoweiners 4y ago

Sure. When I worked in the office I mostly communicated through IM or email.

FpUser 4y ago

>"Do you really want to spend that much time isolated, only interacting with other people through screens?" Absolutely. And I do not need to be "interacting" when I am working. There is a chat / email which I would read at my convenience. In case of emergency there are calls.

prepend 4y ago

> Do you really want to spend that much time isolated, only interacting with other people through screens? Yes. Also, the choice is made for me. I work in software and data and everyone I work with is digital whether I’m in the office or home or Timbuktu. So I don’t really have a decision. Every day my “team” is in multiple counties and time zones. There’s no way to spend time with them every day in person. Unless I want to say hello to security guards and chitchat with work strangers I’d rather spend that time with other people. I guess there are some industries where teams can be in the same room and building. I don’t work in such an organization and I like my job. I don’t feel isolated.

abeppu 4y ago
Yes! People trying to highlight the downsides of distanced work keep ignoring this important point. For a bunch of us, even pre-pandemic and working from _an_ office teams were often split across multiple offices, so every meeting already involved a video call. Today, it's _easier_ for me to have an unscheduled sync with a teammate because I can immediately hop on a zoom call from my private home office. Before the pandemic, I had to first try to find an unused conference room or phone booth (because having calls in the open-plan office was disruptive). Sometimes, when there was no good space available, I'd end up standing holding a laptop (and thus unable to take any notes) in the stairwell, which had less consistent wifi signal. If a meeting runs long, we don't have to scramble as we're kicked out of rooms by the next scheduled group. And scheduling larger group meetings isn't limited by the ability to reserve multiple large conference rooms across multiple offices. People trying to tell me that I'd be more productive from the office are so far unwilling to commit to providing an office which doesn't waste my time on this nonsense.

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]