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> I interact with people outside of work Ding ding ding. I think this right here is the key. It was eye opening to learn how few of my coworkers had anyone ou

by xkqd 4y ago

> I interact with people outside of work Ding ding ding. I think this right here is the key. It was eye opening to learn how few of my coworkers had anyone outside of work. It’s heartbreaking but clearly a burning epidemic. I also learned how many of my coworkers prioritized being in the office every day of the week over working at home with their spouses and/or children. I can’t get over that in particular. It’s none of my business, but nonetheless it angers me.

yt-sdb 4y ago
Well, I have lots of friends and interactions outside of work, but I still prefer going into the office. Personally, I think what makes people happy is a multidimensional surface with lots of peaks and valleys. Univariate explanations are reductive.
- waboremo 4y ago
  Same, but I have a hard limit for how many days per week I would prefer going into the office. I cannot fathom those who have a life outside of work actually wanting to spend 5 days a week going to the office when they have a choice otherwise.
  - CydeWeys 4y ago
    You need to work on your imagination a little bit then.
    - waboremo 4y ago
      Don't have any free time to, I've got to be in the office 5 days a week.
  - tomjakubowski 4y ago
    sometimes people like spending time with coworkers!
    - olyjohn 4y ago
      Sometimes they hate spending time with their families too lol.
CydeWeys 4y ago
People are always so quick to bring this up as if it's a gotcha, but it's not. You spend roughly half of your waking hours working. Do you really want to spend that much time isolated, only interacting with other people through screens?
- kadoban 4y ago
  Yes, absolutely. I realize that not everybody does though.
  - ryandrake 4y ago
    The thread proves there is no right answer. Some people crave in-office work and face-to-face interaction, some people prefer working from home with interaction with non-coworkers, and some people prefer working from home in isolation. This isn’t a race to find the right way and prove the others wrong! Personally, since going remote and moving out to the boonies, I have had some weeks where I never even came within 100 meters of anyone other than my family, and it was absolutely glorious! Treating “society” as optional is amazing and liberating. Obviously not everyone shares this outlook and that’s ok!
    - re-thc 4y ago
      Or rather there's more to it. Do people really prefer working from the office or do they just want to escape and dump their responsibilities on their other half or family in general? For those that have kids - who picks them up if you're in the office? Is your partner forced not to work or remote so you get to go in? For those that have older family to look after, again who does it? Or who does the housework etc? There was an earlier discussion on why open source is mostly male dominated... well guess why...
      - deleted 4y ago
        [deleted]
      - RestlessMind 4y ago
benjaminwootton 4y ago
I wouldn’t say it’s heartbreaking. When you are at school that’s your main venue for meeting people, and when you are at work that’s the same. Almost all of my friends and acquaintances were met through work and I’m not really sad or embarrassed about that. I also have a family who I love, but I don’t feel I need to be with them 24/7, or that I’m prioritising anything over them by wanting a career and to work physically with coworkers. It isn’t reasonable for the WFH advocates to see us people who prefer the office as sad loners with messed up priorities. I personally find Zoom life 100x more depressing.
- re-thc 4y ago
  > I also have a family who I love, but I don’t feel I need to be with them 24/7, or that I’m prioritising anything over them by wanting a career and to work physically with coworkers. And who looks after the kids or elderly parents when you're physically in the office? Or the house duties? Or do we pretend they don't exist? The only way you can pretend you don't need to be with a child 24/7 is if you neglect your duties. You are prioritising work over family. There's no other way. > It isn’t reasonable for the WFH advocates to see us people who prefer the office as sad loners with messed up priorities. That's not what you prefer though. You prefer forcing everyone to accompany you in the office like a sadist. You've heard that some people prefer remote yet you force your ideals on them. You don't prefer the office. You prefer you AND others in the office. Different.
  - RestlessMind 4y ago
    > And who looks after the kids or elderly parents when you're physically in the office? You know, when you are WFH, you are supposed to work. Looking after kids is not working for your employer, unless you are coasting at your job. In which case, such jobs should be consolidated. I think that's what happened at Yahoo back in the day.
    - re-thc 4y ago
      And when you're in the office you are supposed to work. So why are people complaining about missing out on "small talk" or anything else non-work? Same same.
dumbotron 4y ago
> It was eye opening to learn how few of my coworkers had anyone outside of work. So where do I go out and meet people who aren't super religious, ballroom dancing nuts, or alcoholics? The other thing I'll add is that when you're in tech, there's a good chance you share a lot of interests with coworkers. This isn't the case with a lot of community social groups. Sure, they're people you see, but you don't have enough in common with them for them to ever be more than acquaintances.
- jareklupinski 4y ago
  hackerspaces same crowd, but with people from different companies
  - bilbo0s 4y ago
    Most of which are in cities :(
- re-thc 4y ago
  > So where do I go out and meet people who aren't super religious, ballroom dancing nuts, or alcoholics? Lots of coworkers have been just the same. No difference.
- kelseyfrog 4y ago
  I'm in a B-tier central valley city and even here we have a monthly multi-location art event, and coffee walk and talks. I can get brunch with the atheists or chat up other small dog owners during doggie socials. The biggest impediment to my social life is the anxiety of awkwardness when meeting new people, not the lack of opportunities. I'm well equipped to understand the vulnerability disclosure spectrum and when and how to reveal personal information so that my relationships don't stagnate nor am I dumping on people I've just met. I can navigate conservations adeptly to find topics of common interests and genuinely connect. I've purposely enriched myself with topics tech folks tend to dismiss like psychology, sociology, and mysticism which have fruited deep personal connections with others in ways I've never dreamed of. The effort-reward structure is much more gentle than I would have thought even 10 years ago.
doktorhladnjak 4y ago
> It’s none of my business, but nonetheless it angers me. Why does it anger you so much that different people have their own situations and preferences? What I dislike the most about the WFH vs RTO debate is how the strongest advocates on each side seem completely baffled by the other.
prepend 4y ago
> prioritized being in the office every day of the week over working at home with their spouses and/or children. When my kids were young going into the office was easier work than staying home and keeping them. I felt guilty about not being at home with them and being able to be in the office.

by xkqd 4y ago

yt-sdb 4y ago

Well, I have lots of friends and interactions outside of work, but I still prefer going into the office. Personally, I think what makes people happy is a multidimensional surface with lots of peaks and valleys. Univariate explanations are reductive.

waboremo 4y ago
Same, but I have a hard limit for how many days per week I would prefer going into the office. I cannot fathom those who have a life outside of work actually wanting to spend 5 days a week going to the office when they have a choice otherwise.
- CydeWeys 4y ago
  You need to work on your imagination a little bit then.
  - waboremo 4y ago
    Don't have any free time to, I've got to be in the office 5 days a week.
- tomjakubowski 4y ago
  sometimes people like spending time with coworkers!
  - olyjohn 4y ago
    Sometimes they hate spending time with their families too lol.

CydeWeys 4y ago

People are always so quick to bring this up as if it's a gotcha, but it's not. You spend roughly half of your waking hours working. Do you really want to spend that much time isolated, only interacting with other people through screens?

kadoban 4y ago
Yes, absolutely. I realize that not everybody does though.
- ryandrake 4y ago
  The thread proves there is no right answer. Some people crave in-office work and face-to-face interaction, some people prefer working from home with interaction with non-coworkers, and some people prefer working from home in isolation. This isn’t a race to find the right way and prove the others wrong! Personally, since going remote and moving out to the boonies, I have had some weeks where I never even came within 100 meters of anyone other than my family, and it was absolutely glorious! Treating “society” as optional is amazing and liberating. Obviously not everyone shares this outlook and that’s ok!
  - re-thc 4y ago
    Or rather there's more to it. Do people really prefer working from the office or do they just want to escape and dump their responsibilities on their other half or family in general? For those that have kids - who picks them up if you're in the office? Is your partner forced not to work or remote so you get to go in? For those that have older family to look after, again who does it? Or who does the housework etc? There was an earlier discussion on why open source is mostly male dominated... well guess why...
    - deleted 4y ago
      [deleted]
    - RestlessMind 4y ago

benjaminwootton 4y ago

I wouldn’t say it’s heartbreaking. When you are at school that’s your main venue for meeting people, and when you are at work that’s the same. Almost all of my friends and acquaintances were met through work and I’m not really sad or embarrassed about that. I also have a family who I love, but I don’t feel I need to be with them 24/7, or that I’m prioritising anything over them by wanting a career and to work physically with coworkers. It isn’t reasonable for the WFH advocates to see us people who prefer the office as sad loners with messed up priorities. I personally find Zoom life 100x more depressing.

re-thc 4y ago
> I also have a family who I love, but I don’t feel I need to be with them 24/7, or that I’m prioritising anything over them by wanting a career and to work physically with coworkers. And who looks after the kids or elderly parents when you're physically in the office? Or the house duties? Or do we pretend they don't exist? The only way you can pretend you don't need to be with a child 24/7 is if you neglect your duties. You are prioritising work over family. There's no other way. > It isn’t reasonable for the WFH advocates to see us people who prefer the office as sad loners with messed up priorities. That's not what you prefer though. You prefer forcing everyone to accompany you in the office like a sadist. You've heard that some people prefer remote yet you force your ideals on them. You don't prefer the office. You prefer you AND others in the office. Different.
- RestlessMind 4y ago
  > And who looks after the kids or elderly parents when you're physically in the office? You know, when you are WFH, you are supposed to work. Looking after kids is not working for your employer, unless you are coasting at your job. In which case, such jobs should be consolidated. I think that's what happened at Yahoo back in the day.
  - re-thc 4y ago
    And when you're in the office you are supposed to work. So why are people complaining about missing out on "small talk" or anything else non-work? Same same.

dumbotron 4y ago

> It was eye opening to learn how few of my coworkers had anyone outside of work. So where do I go out and meet people who aren't super religious, ballroom dancing nuts, or alcoholics? The other thing I'll add is that when you're in tech, there's a good chance you share a lot of interests with coworkers. This isn't the case with a lot of community social groups. Sure, they're people you see, but you don't have enough in common with them for them to ever be more than acquaintances.

jareklupinski 4y ago
hackerspaces same crowd, but with people from different companies
- bilbo0s 4y ago
  Most of which are in cities :(
re-thc 4y ago
> So where do I go out and meet people who aren't super religious, ballroom dancing nuts, or alcoholics? Lots of coworkers have been just the same. No difference.
kelseyfrog 4y ago
I'm in a B-tier central valley city and even here we have a monthly multi-location art event, and coffee walk and talks. I can get brunch with the atheists or chat up other small dog owners during doggie socials. The biggest impediment to my social life is the anxiety of awkwardness when meeting new people, not the lack of opportunities. I'm well equipped to understand the vulnerability disclosure spectrum and when and how to reveal personal information so that my relationships don't stagnate nor am I dumping on people I've just met. I can navigate conservations adeptly to find topics of common interests and genuinely connect. I've purposely enriched myself with topics tech folks tend to dismiss like psychology, sociology, and mysticism which have fruited deep personal connections with others in ways I've never dreamed of. The effort-reward structure is much more gentle than I would have thought even 10 years ago.

doktorhladnjak 4y ago

> It’s none of my business, but nonetheless it angers me. Why does it anger you so much that different people have their own situations and preferences? What I dislike the most about the WFH vs RTO debate is how the strongest advocates on each side seem completely baffled by the other.

prepend 4y ago

> prioritized being in the office every day of the week over working at home with their spouses and/or children. When my kids were young going into the office was easier work than staying home and keeping them. I felt guilty about not being at home with them and being able to be in the office.