5 ms·

> You can't claim "wait times" as a positive of letting a bunch of people die or go bankrupt i already covered that under 'access' . If you have access then U

> You can't claim "wait times" as a positive of letting a bunch of people die or go bankrupt i already covered that under 'access' . If you have access then USA has much lower wait times. Its postive to the people who have access. Your implication that wait times are just natural consequence of more access is also not right. "Commonwealth Fund ranked Canada last among 11 countries surveyed on wait times for specialist care. the Commonwealth Fund’s survey results show that other universal health care systems (eg, the Netherlands, Switzerland, Germany, Australia, and France) have much shorter wait times than Canada does." "Canada has 35% fewer acute care beds and per capita than the United States ... " > Quality is just not true If you want the most cutting edge medical care then USA is the no 1 destination for people all over the world. "The United States ranks 4th in the World Index of Healthcare Innovation, with an overall score of 54.96, behind only Switzerland, Germany, and the Netherlands. Americans are usually the first to gain access to major new medical advances, advances often discovered at American universities and developed by American companies. As a result, the U.S. ranked first for both Choice (57.65) and Science & Technology (75.14)." https://freopp.org/united-states-health-system-profile-4-in-the-world-index-of-healthcare-innovation-b593ba15a96 https://freopp.org/united-states-health-system-profile-4-in-...

speakfreely 4y ago
> If you want the most cutting edge medical care then USA is the no 1 destination for people all over the world. That's a bit like saying "you can find the cleanest air in the world in California". In remote locations in the desert or wilderness that's plausibly possible, but the vast majority of people live in cities with substantial air pollution. Likewise, most Americans do not have access to cutting edge medical treatments and endure what I would generously call apathetic care from their medical providers. What is available to a celebrity or Saudi prince will never be available to you or any other American you ever meet.
- jryle70 4y ago
  > Most Americans ... endure what I would generously call apathetic care from their medical providers. I call BS with "most Americans" or "apathetic care". Feel free if you want to share your anecdote. My personal experience and those I know though, is that the care is top notch. Cutting edge treatment? well I don't know, I was lucky not needing any of that. It's also probably more expensive compared to other countries. However our of pocket pay is very reasonable, and the level of care is excellent.
- dangwhy 4y ago
  > What is available to a celebrity or Saudi prince will never be available to you or any other American you ever meet. Generic Comments like these are really tiresome. One of my extended family member on medicare got BAT therapy [1] after all other options were exhausted. This is cutting edge therapy thats not available in other parts of the world where you are out of luck when all SOC options are exhausted. If you get advanced prostate cancer in USA you get something called 'triplet therapy' [2] which most parts of world like NHS, canada don't get this despite improved outcomes. 1. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/35357024/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/35357024/ 2. https://ascopost.com/issues/march-25-2022/triplet-combination-of-darolutamide-docetaxel-and-androgen-deprivation-therapy-extends-survival-in-metastatic-hormone-sensitive-prostate-cancer/ https://ascopost.com/issues/march-25-2022/triplet-combinatio...
amrocha 4y ago
Yes, Canada's system has problems. But any system that discriminates based on class is automatically worse.
- dangwhy 4y ago
  of-course, You are free to think that. Making absolute statements based on your gut feelings has no place in rational thinking.
  - amrocha 4y ago
    Killing people is bad is not a feeling. I'm sure you can find some rational logic to justify it, but that doesn't make it ok, it just makes you feel less bad about it.
    - deleted 4y ago
      [deleted]
    - dangwhy 4y ago
      when you or your family member die in a waiting list. https://secondstreet.org/2022/12/13/waiting-list-deaths-surge-in-2021-22/ https://secondstreet.org/2022/12/13/waiting-list-deaths-surg... All your philosophy and shallow responses like "not true" will go out the window in a second . You will understand what quality means when your family cannot have that life saving drug that's been available in USA for years or has to die early from cancer because they couldn't get radiation in time. Ofcourse any troll can pretend on the internet that they will sacrifice their child to cancer wait times because their healthcare system is objectively better .
      - amrocha 4y ago
        Stop strawmanning. I already acknowledged Canada's system needs to be better. Waitlists can be solved. A system that is fundamentally discriminatory can't. I'm glad you got the care you needed, but in order for you to get that care several others were discriminated against and denied care. That's a failure of the system. No matter how good the care you got was, the system failed.

speakfreely 4y ago

> If you want the most cutting edge medical care then USA is the no 1 destination for people all over the world. That's a bit like saying "you can find the cleanest air in the world in California". In remote locations in the desert or wilderness that's plausibly possible, but the vast majority of people live in cities with substantial air pollution. Likewise, most Americans do not have access to cutting edge medical treatments and endure what I would generously call apathetic care from their medical providers. What is available to a celebrity or Saudi prince will never be available to you or any other American you ever meet.

jryle70 4y ago
> Most Americans ... endure what I would generously call apathetic care from their medical providers. I call BS with "most Americans" or "apathetic care". Feel free if you want to share your anecdote. My personal experience and those I know though, is that the care is top notch. Cutting edge treatment? well I don't know, I was lucky not needing any of that. It's also probably more expensive compared to other countries. However our of pocket pay is very reasonable, and the level of care is excellent.
dangwhy 4y ago
> What is available to a celebrity or Saudi prince will never be available to you or any other American you ever meet. Generic Comments like these are really tiresome. One of my extended family member on medicare got BAT therapy [1] after all other options were exhausted. This is cutting edge therapy thats not available in other parts of the world where you are out of luck when all SOC options are exhausted. If you get advanced prostate cancer in USA you get something called 'triplet therapy' [2] which most parts of world like NHS, canada don't get this despite improved outcomes. 1. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/35357024/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/35357024/ 2. https://ascopost.com/issues/march-25-2022/triplet-combination-of-darolutamide-docetaxel-and-androgen-deprivation-therapy-extends-survival-in-metastatic-hormone-sensitive-prostate-cancer/ https://ascopost.com/issues/march-25-2022/triplet-combinatio...

amrocha 4y ago

Yes, Canada's system has problems. But any system that discriminates based on class is automatically worse.

dangwhy 4y ago
of-course, You are free to think that. Making absolute statements based on your gut feelings has no place in rational thinking.
- amrocha 4y ago
  Killing people is bad is not a feeling. I'm sure you can find some rational logic to justify it, but that doesn't make it ok, it just makes you feel less bad about it.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
  - dangwhy 4y ago
    when you or your family member die in a waiting list. https://secondstreet.org/2022/12/13/waiting-list-deaths-surge-in-2021-22/ https://secondstreet.org/2022/12/13/waiting-list-deaths-surg... All your philosophy and shallow responses like "not true" will go out the window in a second . You will understand what quality means when your family cannot have that life saving drug that's been available in USA for years or has to die early from cancer because they couldn't get radiation in time. Ofcourse any troll can pretend on the internet that they will sacrifice their child to cancer wait times because their healthcare system is objectively better .
    - amrocha 4y ago
      Stop strawmanning. I already acknowledged Canada's system needs to be better. Waitlists can be solved. A system that is fundamentally discriminatory can't. I'm glad you got the care you needed, but in order for you to get that care several others were discriminated against and denied care. That's a failure of the system. No matter how good the care you got was, the system failed.