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The roots of Japan's Indian curry

145 points by kizunajp 4y ago

deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
JoeAltmaier 4y ago
Interesting! I take issue with the common claim that 'curry' isn't a thing in a 'real' Indian restaurant. I did a quick survey online and could not find a single solitary Indian restaurant menu without curry on it. From the fanciest to the common takeout joint. There are even chains like 'Curry House'. Let's tone down the virtue signaling in food reviews. It's silly. There are 150 languages in India; there are as many cuisines. To claim knowledge about the 'real Indian' food or culture is transparent nonsense. On another slant, it's a rampant issue in YouTube videos where anybody with an Italian accent claim only they know how to make real Italian food. Learn a little history, folks.
- kizunajp 4y ago
  I was making the claim that if you went to a restaurant in India, you wouldn't normally find any menu item called "curry", because curry is a genre of foods and not one single item in Indian cuisine.
  - boomboomsubban 4y ago
    Saying "No self-respecting restaurant in India" may be a better way of putting it.
    - kizunajp 4y ago
      That makes sense. Thank you.
  - jmillikin 4y ago
    This might be a language barrier issue, but I have never seen an Indian-style restaurant advertise a dish as "curry" in any country I've visited. Even in Japan (I live in Tokyo and have several インド料理 shops nearby), even if the shop itself has カレー in the name, the menu will say what each thing is (keema, sagh paneer, etc). Imagine sitting down and opening a menu and seeing something labelled "soup" or "sandwich"!
    - messe 4y ago
      I only know of one Indian restaurant locally here (Ireland) that has a "house curry" listed, but the rest of the menu is as you describe it.
      - Xelynega 4y ago
        In that case isn't "house curry" similar to "soup of the day"?
        messe 4y ago
        It's been a while since I've eaten there, so I can't remember if it's that, or something along the lines of their own signature recipe.
        dfxm12 4y ago
        I would guess it's an original recipe (with no traditional name) and doesn't change daily.
    - j45 4y ago
      North Indian dishes like da saag I keens might be evolving to care less to use it. But I’d bet that’s not just North Indian Christine. Restaurant opened by todays emigrating Indians are more aware of the choices than 30-50 years ago. It was a very different world.
  - unmole 4y ago
    If you went to a restaurant in Italy, would you find any item called pasta?
  - j45 4y ago
    It is a fair claim. The word rarely exists on its own. It has roots in some Indian languages, but is not pervasive like it is today across all Indian cuisines. Part of this is interesting to learn the stories of the early Indians who left India either as indentured servants which turned out to be an updated form of slavery, or emigrating as labourers from north India (and other areas) and how those migrations played out across the colonized world.
  - JoeAltmaier 4y ago
    Sorry, I should have stayed quiet. I'd been scrolling through videos all trumpeting their only true recipe for whatever, and was sensitized.
- dagmx 4y ago
  The point is that “curry” is a British generalization. Indian restaurants were historically called curry houses as a pejorative. India has many dishes that one might consider a curry, but we have no dish called curry. The only use of the word curry in restaurants is to appeal to British nationals (and anyone they spread their culture to). It’s an artifact of colonialism. I also don’t understand why you think it’s virtue signalling. If anything, your appeal to “150 languages in India” is virtue signalling because you’re trying to make a benevolent justification for a word whose history you don’t understand. Also rich that you say “learn a little history folks” when you yourself clearly didn’t learn it in this instance. Now, there is a word “Kari” in several South Indian languages but it’s used to mean spicy sauce or “kadipoda” which means spice mix, both derived from “black” in reference to the use of black peppercorns. The generalization into “curry” was one of colonial misinterpretation. https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2019/04/why-we-call-indian-dishes-curry-colonial-history/586828/ https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2019/04/why-we-ca...
  - sampo 4y ago
    > Now, there is a word “Kari” in several South Indian languages but it’s used to mean spicy sauce or “kadipoda” which means spice mix, both derived from “black” in reference to the use of black peppercorns. Is this the same word as "kara", black, in Turkic languages? Apparently, speculatively, yes: https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Reconstruction:Proto-Japonic/kuro https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Reconstruction:Proto-Japonic/... Also Japanese "kuro".
    - dagmx 4y ago
      Yes Turkish and Sanskrit have a lot of shared words or similar ones due to various cultural sharing
  - unmole 4y ago
    > The only use of the word curry in restaurants is to appeal to British nationals (and anyone they spread their culture to). So, the Curry Points that dot Hyderabad are artefacts of British colonialism? > The generalization into “curry” was one of colonial misinterpretation. Yeah, no. The Telugu kura which is obviously cognate with kari is used to mean, well curry. How about you tone down the misinterpretation and false generalization?
- 8ytecoder 4y ago
  Curry comes from the Tamil word (கறி kaṟi). The curry we have today is a mix of different influences - Ancient Indian (mustard, fennel, cumin, black pepper, curry leaves), Mughal, and Portuguese (Chilli pepper, tomato). There are subtle but important difference but they all share some similarities - especially the spices. Although curry powder (turmeric, coriander, fenugreek, cinnamon, cumin, black pepper, ginger, and cardamom) - those are every day spices in South India which was where most spices where exported from, historically. And we use that exact combination to this day. I see it frequently in British cooking shows - trying to lay claim for curry. I'm sure curry has evolved like with any cuisine. But it's absolute bonkers that even James May seems to think that curry originated in Britain. Now, that's some fine poppycock.
- bakul 4y ago
  Supposedly curry comes from the tamil word (transliterated as) "kaRi" which may be related to black pepper (native to India) to spice things up. In all Indian languages the color black has a very similar name (in Gujarati Kāḷī (feminine) or kāḷo (masculine) etc. -- also the goddess Kāli -- the one who is black or death!). More generally associated with something burnt (blackened). Anyway, a spicy sauce would be kaRi. In restaurants in South India you may find various dishes named curry (such as kozhi curry or kozhi kari). But when most everything is spicy, why even say that? Indians would rather know what is in a recipe than how it tastes! [Lot of speculation here: perhaps some knowledgeable Tamil will correct this without getting all upset!] I should also point out "curry leaves" -- not sure if there is a connection with curry. They are not spicy but are put in many Indian dishes to give them a certain flavor.
  - dagmx 4y ago
    To add to your point on curry leaves: > Curry leaf” comes from the Tamil word “karu-vep-ilai” (‘black neem leaf’), leaves of the sweet neem plant Murraya koenigii
    - bakul 4y ago
      Thanks! In Gujarati we call it "meettho limdo" or sweet neem. It is dark green but not black (except when left in the 'frig for a few days or on the plant when it is sick!).
      - dagmx 4y ago
        There’s some possible history further back in our languages where kala might have meant darker not just black. Similarly the etymology of Krishna (the deity) is both considered “dark” or “black” depending on whom you ask. I suspect it may be a case where our languages at the time didn’t need to delineate between black and a dark colour. Tone/shade was a relative unlike hue.
    - vrc 4y ago
      Telugu is karivepaaku. Same stuff.
- j45 4y ago
  Handy field reference guide: - Is it possible Indian restaurants like other cuisine were packaged for a non-Indian audience as much as an Indian audience? - Too many people faint at the sight of having to read and pronounce an Indian name, how might it go with something that isn’t short like naan, cha? Even with naan (which means bread), bread is added on to hear people say bread bread. Cha/chai is tea, and Indians live to hear people say tea tea. - In this way curry might be a common word added to dishes. - Next time, at an Indian restaurant, see if you can over hear any Indian guests who exclude the word curry from their sentence when ordering. - Maybe it’s worth asking Indian mothers if the word curry was used by them. - The etymology of curry is readily available. At most it’s a style of cooking (like bbq). - There’s actually over 500 languages in India, but they might have been all the same to the British, so let’s just call it all a curry. The only dish I can think is kadhi which is made with cooked yogurt. It’s not spelled or pronounced like curry. I hope that helps with the offence :)
- Avshalom 4y ago
  Well on the italian note calling 'curry' 'a thing' is like calling 'pasta sauce' 'a thing'. Like sure in a very vague sense but if you went into a restaurant and it had "Noodles with pasta sauce" as a dish it would (I hope) make you pause at least.
- anon291 4y ago
  I mean there is no dish that is curry similar to how sandwich isn't a good. Sandwiches are a class of food with very disparate things being called sandwiches. Same with curries. The existence of sandwich shops does not mean there is a singular dish called sandwich
- spprashant 4y ago
  Curry loosely translates to gravy. Without a more specific term describing the type of curry it's a little pointless. Ever go to an Italian restaurant and say "I ll have the pasta"?
BozeWolf 4y ago
Ahh, I absolutely love this. I frequently prepare this for dinner. This is how you do it: https://youtu.be/QhsrBz9Cceg https://youtu.be/QhsrBz9Cceg (nope, see edit.) Fun thing is, my mom sort of makes this… she learned from my grandma. Almost the same recipe, except for the spring onion and other topings. When i saw this in a japanese cookbook and then the video from Kenji, i was totally amazed. Like if my grandma learned this from Kenji. But we are as Dutch as Heineken. Where did my grandma got this recipe from… 50+ years ago? Probably some magazine and then an indian curry recipe from the uk? Who knows :-) Edit: the image on top does look different from what I mean though. Interesting. Apparently there also is a different style of japanese curry.
- rjh29 4y ago
  Two different types of curry. The article/image are about Indian restaurants in Japan, which tend to have a large naan and a few small metal bowls of curry. The one you're talking about is usually known as 'curry rice' (カレーライス) or 'Japanese curry' and has its roots in English beef stew, but with spice powder added. It is eaten over regular sticky white rice, often with a pork or chicken cutlet on top. I personally love it.
  - bigyikes 4y ago
    I tried Japanese curry for the first time in San Francisco a couple of weeks ago. Absolutely delicious. I definitely noticed the English vibes. Actually, it reminded me a lot of Southern US homestyle food. Swap the rice for some potatoes and you could’ve fooled me.
  - kizunajp 4y ago
    You're right! While I was doing the research for this article I found this to be an interesting read on Japanese curry aka カレーライス: https://metropolisjapan.com/the-origins-of-japanese-curry/ https://metropolisjapan.com/the-origins-of-japanese-curry/
    - BozeWolf 4y ago
      This is great! Thanks!
hans0l074 4y ago
Interestingly, the Nepali entrepreneurs also run a lot of restaurants here in Finland - along side Indian ones. Though I feel that there are more Nepalese ones. The cuisine is almost indistinguishable from North Indian cuisine, and I have heard from some folks who have visited Nepal, that authentic dishes from Nepal are missing from these restaurants. Though I suspect that might not entirely be true.
- snowman5678 4y ago
  Interesting! I wonder how much of the indistinguishabilty is just them catering to their audience looking for North Indian recipes. There are definitely a lot of Nepali recipes that are very far from Indian cuisine.
  - scheme271 4y ago
    It's almost all catering to local taste and what's expected. Nepali food is good but it's not as rich as what you'd get in a restaurant. Daal baht (rice with a thin lentil soup) is not what people expect if they pay $10-20. Hell, most northern indian restaurants feature foods that are way richer than you'd see in real home cooked cuisine. The restaurant versions invariably have way more heavy cream and butter than would ever be used in a typical home.
  - j45 4y ago
    North Indian cuisine is more established globally because North Indians were either forced to seek economic opportunity abroad. It wasn’t then alone, but the numbers in many areas of the world make it clear off the early waves to the Middle East, Africa, England, canada, the us, and beyond. Partition uprooted and scattered many families from the generally 1900’s Indian subcontinent across the world in waves.
- stevekemp 4y ago
  I moved from the UK, where Chicken tikka masala is famously the most popular food, and I am surprised that most of the Indian restaurants here are Nepalese. Unfortunately the local Nepalese restaurants seem to have very very similar menus, and themed decor, along with a poor record of treating their workers fairly. I do miss UK-styled curries, and Indian food, I think even though the foods have obviously been adjusted for the UK tastes there is a lot more variety available than in Finland. (Which I guess makes sense given the relative populations, and differences in terms of the number of Indian people who've integrated to both countries over recent decades.)
discordance 4y ago
Bose’s original Nakamuraya original restaurant is still open and running, located in a passenger tunnel between shinjuku-sanchome and shinjuku station. I found it a quite odd spot and configuration, considering the history. More detail here: https://wattention.com/restaurant-review-shinjuku-nakamuraya-manna/ https://wattention.com/restaurant-review-shinjuku-nakamuraya...
- flyaway123 4y ago
  Thanks for sharing. On a side note, I find it quite curious how the resolution on this image from WAttention [1] mismatches. From the OP, the couple portrait attributed to Wikipedia, which is the latest 2018 retouched version [2], has a much higher resolution and specifies @Press as the source. The 2016 original version [3] matches the couple portrait on @Press [4], which has the same blueish hue and the additional artifacts. This links back to Nakamuraya's website itself [5], which has the same food photo combination as [1], but in consistent resolution. At first, it seems to me that the couple portrait on [1] was (intentionally?) degraded because of the different lighting than [5], and the food photo is simply another version that was available during the retrieval (notice the crop). On second thought, it could have simply been another version that was available from Nakamuraya's. TIL images uploaded to Wikipedia are encouraged to be enhanced [6]. I wonder, as AI tools getting more pervasive, how many variations with artificial details will exist due to constant upscaling/downsizing? (Accurate replication might not be important in certain contexts, but I imagine artificial details will eventually leak into the chain of reference) Of course, old photos like this are scanned/photographed into digital format in the first place. [1]: https://wattention.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/07/Shinjuku-Nakamuraya-Manna-history.jpg https://wattention.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/07/Shinjuku-N... [2]: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/f5/Rash_Behari_Bose_and_his_wife_Toshiko.jpg https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/f5/Rash_Beh... [3]: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/archive/f/f5/20181218062147%21Rash_Behari_Bose_and_his_wife_Toshiko.jpg https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/archive/f/f5/... [4]: https://www.atpress.ne.jp/releases/104283/img_104283_8.jpg https://www.atpress.ne.jp/releases/104283/img_104283_8.jpg [5]: https://www.nakamuraya.co.jp/common/img/top/pavilion_img07.png https://www.nakamuraya.co.jp/common/img/top/pavilion_img07.p... [6]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:How_to_improve_image_quality https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:How_to_improve_image...
throw0101c 4y ago
Tempura also has foreign origins: > Tempura (天ぷら or 天麩羅, tenpura, [tempɯɾa]) is a typical Japanese dish usually consisting of seafood, meat and vegetables that have been battered and deep fried. The dish was introduced by the Portuguese in Nagasaki through fritter-cooking techniques in the 16th century. The word tempura comes from the Latin word tempora, a term referring to times of fasting when the church dictated that Catholics go meatless.[1] * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tempura https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tempura
- dagmx 4y ago
  A lot of Japanese dishes that are popular today have foreign origins. Tempura, curry, ramen, and salmon for sushi. It’s why I find it hilarious when some people obsess over the authenticity of Japanese food and deride fusion cuisine. It (much like most great cuisines) is the result of intermixing and interpretations of dishes. Many Indian dishes too wouldn’t have existed without foreign interaction. Potato dishes obviously (which are very prevalent) but even things like Butter chicken or many Mughal based dishes. The origin of food is in many ways just as as interesting as the etymology of words.
  - ipqk 4y ago
    One of my favorite Indian dishes is Poori Masala (eaten with Poori obviously), which is mostly potatoes & tomatoes, both of which come from the New World.
    - dagmx 4y ago
      I was trying to think of which of my childhood dishes could have existed without the new world imports. So much of Indian cuisine today is so heavily influenced by the new world. I found this Reddit thread that went into it a bit which I found quite fascinating. https://reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/comments/4rwri1/what_was_indian_food_like_before_contact_with_the/ https://reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/comments/4rwri1/what_was_... Even the lentil dishes, where lentils were native, now have a lot of new world additions to enhance them.
  - 4y ago
brigandish 4y ago
> So if you are craving for spice in Japan, try one of the two thousand "Indian" restaurants and you will not be disappointed. Erm, if you've had a proper curry recently then you probably will be. Like everywhere else, foreign foods get tailored to their locality or they die. If you fancy a naan filled with sugar and some pretty bland dishes then try an "Indian" restaurant in Japan. Which should come as no surprise, because plenty of other so-called spicy foods here are a) not spicy, and b) surprisingly/sadly, overly sweet. That's not to say that you can't get a decent curry here, but you'll have to try harder than just walking into a random curry house. And this… > Indian restaurants outnumber the top 3 pizza chains of the country put together! I think the only food more maligned by localisation in Japan than pizza could be Mexican food, which leads us back to spice and sugar. I'm not sure what having more curry houses than pizza huts in Japan proves. It would mean something in the US or Italy, but in Japan? Tastes differ.
- sho 4y ago
  > spicy foods here are a) not spicy Ha. Can confirm. Lived there 2 years and while I love the food, as far as I can tell there is no food available anywhere in Japan, at all, that the average south east asian would recognise as even mildly spicy. And outside the home islands I have observed Japanese people reacting hilariously to the actually spicy local food. My favourite was a co-worker who literally collapsed to the floor in the foetal position moaning after eating a mala hotpot which was, at best, medium heat. Love the people, love the country, but Golden Curry's bright warning red "EXTRA HOT" is not bloody hot at all.
  - Rebelgecko 4y ago
    That's surprising, when I get Coco Ichibanya I think level 4-6 is already fairly spicy
    - johnwalkr 4y ago
      Yeah I was gonna say this. Coco (and also smaller competing chain gogo) is Japanese curry that you can find in every city and can be ordered extremely spicy. And it’s not by default but any of the Indian curry places will make it very spicy if you ask. I’ve also gone out of my way to look up the most authentic places for a specific dish, and been able to order something so spicy I could barely finish it. All of that being said, mild is definitely what to expect unless you ask for spicy or go out of your way for a specific dish.
Brajeshwar 4y ago
I'm not much into food. I'm kinda the "I eat because I have to." My disclaimer is that I'm not an expert but here are a few interesting stories that might be relevant to this story. I come from a place where there is a huge influence of the Japanese and grew up in folklores punctuated with Japanese stories. I got to know a tad more, when one of my school-friend took a keen interest in digging up British and Japanese soldiers remains from the World War, built a museum, and is regularly invited as a diplomat by both the Japanese and the British. I grew up visiting many Japanese monuments, including the last stand of the INA's holding place in India where Subhas Chandra Bose worked with the Japanese. For the food, from the story, I'm of the believe that the curry is more Bengal-ish than further mainland India. The food from my place are a major blend of our olden recipes spiced up with the Bengali recipe, with an additional dose of East Asia. Also, most Indian Restaurants in India, if not owned, are pretty much run (cooks, etc.) by Nepalese. And most "Chinese" restaurants by Bengalis. Of course, the "Chinese" food in India are, well, very very Indian-ised. I also grow up memorizing most scenes from "Bridge on the River Kwai" as that bridge, after crossing, goes through my home-stage to advance into India during the war.
- rayiner 4y ago
  > Also, most Indian Restaurants in India, if not owned, are pretty much run (cooks, etc.) by Nepalese. And most "Chinese" restaurants by Bengalis. Of course, the "Chinese" food in India are, well, very very Indian-ised. A great many Indian restaurants in the US are also owned by Bengalis. I visited a Bangladeshi restaurant in Atlanta that was advertised as such. The owner mentioned that most of the Indian restaurants in the city were owned by Bengalis, so he decided to be open about it when he started his own.
  - nerdponx 4y ago
    I used to live above a very conventional Indian restaurant in New York, and once in conversation the owner mentioned to me that he was from Bangladesh. I asked him if were any interesting special dishes from Bangladesh that we don't normally see on Indian restaurant menus in America, and he just shrugged and said something to the effect of "meh, it's all the same anyway." I thought that was kind of interesting. The food also wasn't particularly good, so maybe he just isn't really a food guy and came into owning the business somehow other than a passion for the culinary arts.
riffraff 4y ago
I see your curry imported by British, and I raise you Spaghetti Naporitan[0], pasta with ketchup and american bacon invented by a Japanese who was inspired by US army rations. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naporitan https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naporitan
- JumpCrisscross 4y ago
  And “carbonara is an American recipe” [1]. (Budae-jjigae is closer to your example [2].) [1] https://www.ft.com/content/6ac009d5-dbfd-4a86-839e-28bb44b2b64c https://www.ft.com/content/6ac009d5-dbfd-4a86-839e-28bb44b2b... [2] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Budae-jjigae https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Budae-jjigae
- Rebelgecko 4y ago
  Interesting to compare/contrast with how in the Philippines it's popular to eat spaghetti with ketchup (or a ketchup-y sweet tomato sauce) and chopped up hot dog
- abudabi123 4y ago
  Amex celebrity chef Jack Chaplin does a quick chicken curry in five minutes. + https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nW6BwqVKtsU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nW6BwqVKtsU
anuraj 4y ago
"Now to be clear, India has no such dish as a curry. No self-respecting Indian restaurant has a "curry" on their menu. They would have a Palak Paneer or a Malai Kofta or a Murgh Makhani - all of which we lump into "curry" - but no "curry" - This is patently wrong. Curry is a South Indian word referring to vegetables originally (Malakkarry means vegetables). Come to Kerala - you have Moru Curry (Butter Milk Curry) , Erachi Curry (Beef Curry), Tharavu Curry (Duck Curry) etc. The author is a North Indian oblivious of curry history. "കറി വെപ്പാനെന്തുള്ളത് കാട്ടിൽ, വിറകിന് മാത്രം മുട്ടില്ലിവിടെ" [kari veppaanenthullathu kaattil, virakinu maathram muttillivide] "What is there to make curry in the forest? Only firewood is available here" - Kiraatham Thullal by Kunchan Nambiar, Malayalam poet Circa 1750 AD.
- user- 4y ago
  > Now to be clear, India has no such dish as a curry Shit, gotta go ask my mom what shes been calling curry my whole life then.
- kizunajp 4y ago
  As I clarified in another comment, I was trying to make the point that curry is a genre of foods (as your examples illustrate). https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35400253#35400453 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35400253#35400453
  - whitemary 4y ago
    With all due respect, you failed at making that point, but now at least your intentions are understood.
    - kizunajp 4y ago
      I agree. Half the comments are about that one statement. You might be on to something here..
      - dfxm12 4y ago
        FWIW, I understood exactly what you meant on first reading. Now to be clear, India has no such dish as a curry. The wording "no such dish as a curry" is a little ambiguous here as to if you mean a single menu item called "curry" or items from the genre of curry. This might be were people are tripping up. However, you make yourself crystal clear with the following sentences: No self-respecting Indian restaurant has a "curry" on their menu. They would have a Palak Paneer or a Malai Kofta or a Murgh Makhani - all of which we lump into "curry" - but no "curry". If someone is saying you failed at making this point, I'm not sure they read the whole paragraph, or are just willfully ignoring the context and are looking for an argument.
sandGorgon 4y ago
this is a beautiful story, thank you for writing it. Curry is much like India - you believe in it, thats why it exists. And you will curry controversy no matter what you write ;) also, in case you didnt know - Ras Behari Bose and Subhash Chandra Bose are the most mysterious of Indian freedom fighters. With the exact history unknown to this day. Ras Behari Bose created the INA and adopted the resolution that made Subhash Chandra Bose as the leader, while he was living in Japan. Even today, the Indian parliament is rocked with demands that the "secret files" be opened. The Netaji papers were recently declassified - https://nationalarchives.nic.in/content/netaji-papers https://nationalarchives.nic.in/content/netaji-papers - but the papers are not complete. Japan has consistently REFUSED to declassify some of the Bose files (https://thewire.in/history/japan-netaji-death-files https://thewire.in/history/japan-netaji-death-files) So you see, the Japanese curry is far far more mysterious than you think !
fsckboy 4y ago
>The surprising roots of Japan's Indian curry Vermont? https://www.reddit.com/r/vermont/comments/bejqjj/yeah_vermont_has_great_cheese_but/ https://www.reddit.com/r/vermont/comments/bejqjj/yeah_vermon... https://www.sevendaysvt.com/vermont/why-is-japans-most-popular-curry-called-vermont-curry/Content?oid=27434116 https://www.sevendaysvt.com/vermont/why-is-japans-most-popul...
kizunajp 4y ago
The post title was changed to drop the "surprising". Not sure why?
johnwalkr 4y ago
The bit about ubiquitous Nepali-owned restaurants makes me nostalgic for living in Japan. They may not be authentic but they are great for lunch. Typically, at lunchtime, 2 small curries, naan, salad and a soft drink bar is ¥800-¥1000. And it’s served instantly.
thesalsabear 4y ago
Why are Indians getting taught about Indian food?
- _shantaram 4y ago
  I doubt it's as deep as you think it is. The author found an interesting story to tell and told it.
  - thesalsabear 4y ago
    I was talking about the comment section.
    - _shantaram 4y ago
      Ah, well, even in that case there's still a lot of things Indian people don't know about Indian food. Just by virtue of being Indian we do not learn everything there is to know about Indian people / food / culture.
      - thesalsabear 4y ago
        @_shantaram Maybe. I recommend that you find something other an online chat section to learn about Indian food!
    - deleted 4y ago
      [deleted]
- rawicki 4y ago
  From experience of traveling to many countries and talking with people about food - not everyone is interested in it. I've heard many bad recommendations or people surprised I know the dishes they have never tried. And that's okay.
  - thesalsabear 4y ago
    But I read stuff like: > Now to be clear, India has no such dish as a curry from the "educators" here
disqard 4y ago
Thank you for writing this! I am Bengali, and did not know this about Rash Behari Bose.

145 points by kizunajp 4y ago

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

Interesting! I take issue with the common claim that 'curry' isn't a thing in a 'real' Indian restaurant. I did a quick survey online and could not find a single solitary Indian restaurant menu without curry on it. From the fanciest to the common takeout joint. There are even chains like 'Curry House'. Let's tone down the virtue signaling in food reviews. It's silly. There are 150 languages in India; there are as many cuisines. To claim knowledge about the 'real Indian' food or culture is transparent nonsense. On another slant, it's a rampant issue in YouTube videos where anybody with an Italian accent claim only they know how to make real Italian food. Learn a little history, folks.

kizunajp 4y ago
I was making the claim that if you went to a restaurant in India, you wouldn't normally find any menu item called "curry", because curry is a genre of foods and not one single item in Indian cuisine.
- boomboomsubban 4y ago
  Saying "No self-respecting restaurant in India" may be a better way of putting it.
  - kizunajp 4y ago
    That makes sense. Thank you.
- jmillikin 4y ago
  This might be a language barrier issue, but I have never seen an Indian-style restaurant advertise a dish as "curry" in any country I've visited. Even in Japan (I live in Tokyo and have several インド料理 shops nearby), even if the shop itself has カレー in the name, the menu will say what each thing is (keema, sagh paneer, etc). Imagine sitting down and opening a menu and seeing something labelled "soup" or "sandwich"!
  - messe 4y ago
    I only know of one Indian restaurant locally here (Ireland) that has a "house curry" listed, but the rest of the menu is as you describe it.
    - Xelynega 4y ago
      In that case isn't "house curry" similar to "soup of the day"?
      - messe 4y ago
        It's been a while since I've eaten there, so I can't remember if it's that, or something along the lines of their own signature recipe.
      - dfxm12 4y ago
        I would guess it's an original recipe (with no traditional name) and doesn't change daily.
  - j45 4y ago
    North Indian dishes like da saag I keens might be evolving to care less to use it. But I’d bet that’s not just North Indian Christine. Restaurant opened by todays emigrating Indians are more aware of the choices than 30-50 years ago. It was a very different world.
- unmole 4y ago
  If you went to a restaurant in Italy, would you find any item called pasta?
- j45 4y ago
  It is a fair claim. The word rarely exists on its own. It has roots in some Indian languages, but is not pervasive like it is today across all Indian cuisines. Part of this is interesting to learn the stories of the early Indians who left India either as indentured servants which turned out to be an updated form of slavery, or emigrating as labourers from north India (and other areas) and how those migrations played out across the colonized world.
- JoeAltmaier 4y ago
  Sorry, I should have stayed quiet. I'd been scrolling through videos all trumpeting their only true recipe for whatever, and was sensitized.
dagmx 4y ago
The point is that “curry” is a British generalization. Indian restaurants were historically called curry houses as a pejorative. India has many dishes that one might consider a curry, but we have no dish called curry. The only use of the word curry in restaurants is to appeal to British nationals (and anyone they spread their culture to). It’s an artifact of colonialism. I also don’t understand why you think it’s virtue signalling. If anything, your appeal to “150 languages in India” is virtue signalling because you’re trying to make a benevolent justification for a word whose history you don’t understand. Also rich that you say “learn a little history folks” when you yourself clearly didn’t learn it in this instance. Now, there is a word “Kari” in several South Indian languages but it’s used to mean spicy sauce or “kadipoda” which means spice mix, both derived from “black” in reference to the use of black peppercorns. The generalization into “curry” was one of colonial misinterpretation. https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2019/04/why-we-call-indian-dishes-curry-colonial-history/586828/ https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2019/04/why-we-ca...
- sampo 4y ago
  > Now, there is a word “Kari” in several South Indian languages but it’s used to mean spicy sauce or “kadipoda” which means spice mix, both derived from “black” in reference to the use of black peppercorns. Is this the same word as "kara", black, in Turkic languages? Apparently, speculatively, yes: https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Reconstruction:Proto-Japonic/kuro https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Reconstruction:Proto-Japonic/... Also Japanese "kuro".
  - dagmx 4y ago
    Yes Turkish and Sanskrit have a lot of shared words or similar ones due to various cultural sharing
- unmole 4y ago
  > The only use of the word curry in restaurants is to appeal to British nationals (and anyone they spread their culture to). So, the Curry Points that dot Hyderabad are artefacts of British colonialism? > The generalization into “curry” was one of colonial misinterpretation. Yeah, no. The Telugu kura which is obviously cognate with kari is used to mean, well curry. How about you tone down the misinterpretation and false generalization?
8ytecoder 4y ago
Curry comes from the Tamil word (கறி kaṟi). The curry we have today is a mix of different influences - Ancient Indian (mustard, fennel, cumin, black pepper, curry leaves), Mughal, and Portuguese (Chilli pepper, tomato). There are subtle but important difference but they all share some similarities - especially the spices. Although curry powder (turmeric, coriander, fenugreek, cinnamon, cumin, black pepper, ginger, and cardamom) - those are every day spices in South India which was where most spices where exported from, historically. And we use that exact combination to this day. I see it frequently in British cooking shows - trying to lay claim for curry. I'm sure curry has evolved like with any cuisine. But it's absolute bonkers that even James May seems to think that curry originated in Britain. Now, that's some fine poppycock.
bakul 4y ago
Supposedly curry comes from the tamil word (transliterated as) "kaRi" which may be related to black pepper (native to India) to spice things up. In all Indian languages the color black has a very similar name (in Gujarati Kāḷī (feminine) or kāḷo (masculine) etc. -- also the goddess Kāli -- the one who is black or death!). More generally associated with something burnt (blackened). Anyway, a spicy sauce would be kaRi. In restaurants in South India you may find various dishes named curry (such as kozhi curry or kozhi kari). But when most everything is spicy, why even say that? Indians would rather know what is in a recipe than how it tastes! [Lot of speculation here: perhaps some knowledgeable Tamil will correct this without getting all upset!] I should also point out "curry leaves" -- not sure if there is a connection with curry. They are not spicy but are put in many Indian dishes to give them a certain flavor.
- dagmx 4y ago
  To add to your point on curry leaves: > Curry leaf” comes from the Tamil word “karu-vep-ilai” (‘black neem leaf’), leaves of the sweet neem plant Murraya koenigii
  - bakul 4y ago
    Thanks! In Gujarati we call it "meettho limdo" or sweet neem. It is dark green but not black (except when left in the 'frig for a few days or on the plant when it is sick!).
    - dagmx 4y ago
      There’s some possible history further back in our languages where kala might have meant darker not just black. Similarly the etymology of Krishna (the deity) is both considered “dark” or “black” depending on whom you ask. I suspect it may be a case where our languages at the time didn’t need to delineate between black and a dark colour. Tone/shade was a relative unlike hue.
  - vrc 4y ago
    Telugu is karivepaaku. Same stuff.
j45 4y ago
Handy field reference guide: - Is it possible Indian restaurants like other cuisine were packaged for a non-Indian audience as much as an Indian audience? - Too many people faint at the sight of having to read and pronounce an Indian name, how might it go with something that isn’t short like naan, cha? Even with naan (which means bread), bread is added on to hear people say bread bread. Cha/chai is tea, and Indians live to hear people say tea tea. - In this way curry might be a common word added to dishes. - Next time, at an Indian restaurant, see if you can over hear any Indian guests who exclude the word curry from their sentence when ordering. - Maybe it’s worth asking Indian mothers if the word curry was used by them. - The etymology of curry is readily available. At most it’s a style of cooking (like bbq). - There’s actually over 500 languages in India, but they might have been all the same to the British, so let’s just call it all a curry. The only dish I can think is kadhi which is made with cooked yogurt. It’s not spelled or pronounced like curry. I hope that helps with the offence :)
Avshalom 4y ago
Well on the italian note calling 'curry' 'a thing' is like calling 'pasta sauce' 'a thing'. Like sure in a very vague sense but if you went into a restaurant and it had "Noodles with pasta sauce" as a dish it would (I hope) make you pause at least.
anon291 4y ago
I mean there is no dish that is curry similar to how sandwich isn't a good. Sandwiches are a class of food with very disparate things being called sandwiches. Same with curries. The existence of sandwich shops does not mean there is a singular dish called sandwich
spprashant 4y ago
Curry loosely translates to gravy. Without a more specific term describing the type of curry it's a little pointless. Ever go to an Italian restaurant and say "I ll have the pasta"?

BozeWolf 4y ago

Ahh, I absolutely love this. I frequently prepare this for dinner. This is how you do it: https://youtu.be/QhsrBz9Cceg https://youtu.be/QhsrBz9Cceg (nope, see edit.) Fun thing is, my mom sort of makes this… she learned from my grandma. Almost the same recipe, except for the spring onion and other topings. When i saw this in a japanese cookbook and then the video from Kenji, i was totally amazed. Like if my grandma learned this from Kenji. But we are as Dutch as Heineken. Where did my grandma got this recipe from… 50+ years ago? Probably some magazine and then an indian curry recipe from the uk? Who knows :-) Edit: the image on top does look different from what I mean though. Interesting. Apparently there also is a different style of japanese curry.

rjh29 4y ago
Two different types of curry. The article/image are about Indian restaurants in Japan, which tend to have a large naan and a few small metal bowls of curry. The one you're talking about is usually known as 'curry rice' (カレーライス) or 'Japanese curry' and has its roots in English beef stew, but with spice powder added. It is eaten over regular sticky white rice, often with a pork or chicken cutlet on top. I personally love it.
- bigyikes 4y ago
  I tried Japanese curry for the first time in San Francisco a couple of weeks ago. Absolutely delicious. I definitely noticed the English vibes. Actually, it reminded me a lot of Southern US homestyle food. Swap the rice for some potatoes and you could’ve fooled me.
- kizunajp 4y ago
  You're right! While I was doing the research for this article I found this to be an interesting read on Japanese curry aka カレーライス: https://metropolisjapan.com/the-origins-of-japanese-curry/ https://metropolisjapan.com/the-origins-of-japanese-curry/
  - BozeWolf 4y ago
    This is great! Thanks!

hans0l074 4y ago

Interestingly, the Nepali entrepreneurs also run a lot of restaurants here in Finland - along side Indian ones. Though I feel that there are more Nepalese ones. The cuisine is almost indistinguishable from North Indian cuisine, and I have heard from some folks who have visited Nepal, that authentic dishes from Nepal are missing from these restaurants. Though I suspect that might not entirely be true.

snowman5678 4y ago
Interesting! I wonder how much of the indistinguishabilty is just them catering to their audience looking for North Indian recipes. There are definitely a lot of Nepali recipes that are very far from Indian cuisine.
- scheme271 4y ago
  It's almost all catering to local taste and what's expected. Nepali food is good but it's not as rich as what you'd get in a restaurant. Daal baht (rice with a thin lentil soup) is not what people expect if they pay $10-20. Hell, most northern indian restaurants feature foods that are way richer than you'd see in real home cooked cuisine. The restaurant versions invariably have way more heavy cream and butter than would ever be used in a typical home.
- j45 4y ago
  North Indian cuisine is more established globally because North Indians were either forced to seek economic opportunity abroad. It wasn’t then alone, but the numbers in many areas of the world make it clear off the early waves to the Middle East, Africa, England, canada, the us, and beyond. Partition uprooted and scattered many families from the generally 1900’s Indian subcontinent across the world in waves.
stevekemp 4y ago
I moved from the UK, where Chicken tikka masala is famously the most popular food, and I am surprised that most of the Indian restaurants here are Nepalese. Unfortunately the local Nepalese restaurants seem to have very very similar menus, and themed decor, along with a poor record of treating their workers fairly. I do miss UK-styled curries, and Indian food, I think even though the foods have obviously been adjusted for the UK tastes there is a lot more variety available than in Finland. (Which I guess makes sense given the relative populations, and differences in terms of the number of Indian people who've integrated to both countries over recent decades.)

discordance 4y ago

Bose’s original Nakamuraya original restaurant is still open and running, located in a passenger tunnel between shinjuku-sanchome and shinjuku station. I found it a quite odd spot and configuration, considering the history. More detail here: https://wattention.com/restaurant-review-shinjuku-nakamuraya-manna/ https://wattention.com/restaurant-review-shinjuku-nakamuraya...

flyaway123 4y ago
Thanks for sharing. On a side note, I find it quite curious how the resolution on this image from WAttention [1] mismatches. From the OP, the couple portrait attributed to Wikipedia, which is the latest 2018 retouched version [2], has a much higher resolution and specifies @Press as the source. The 2016 original version [3] matches the couple portrait on @Press [4], which has the same blueish hue and the additional artifacts. This links back to Nakamuraya's website itself [5], which has the same food photo combination as [1], but in consistent resolution. At first, it seems to me that the couple portrait on [1] was (intentionally?) degraded because of the different lighting than [5], and the food photo is simply another version that was available during the retrieval (notice the crop). On second thought, it could have simply been another version that was available from Nakamuraya's. TIL images uploaded to Wikipedia are encouraged to be enhanced [6]. I wonder, as AI tools getting more pervasive, how many variations with artificial details will exist due to constant upscaling/downsizing? (Accurate replication might not be important in certain contexts, but I imagine artificial details will eventually leak into the chain of reference) Of course, old photos like this are scanned/photographed into digital format in the first place. [1]: https://wattention.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/07/Shinjuku-Nakamuraya-Manna-history.jpg https://wattention.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/07/Shinjuku-N... [2]: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/f5/Rash_Behari_Bose_and_his_wife_Toshiko.jpg https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/f5/Rash_Beh... [3]: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/archive/f/f5/20181218062147%21Rash_Behari_Bose_and_his_wife_Toshiko.jpg https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/archive/f/f5/... [4]: https://www.atpress.ne.jp/releases/104283/img_104283_8.jpg https://www.atpress.ne.jp/releases/104283/img_104283_8.jpg [5]: https://www.nakamuraya.co.jp/common/img/top/pavilion_img07.png https://www.nakamuraya.co.jp/common/img/top/pavilion_img07.p... [6]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:How_to_improve_image_quality https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:How_to_improve_image...

throw0101c 4y ago

Tempura also has foreign origins: > Tempura (天ぷら or 天麩羅, tenpura, [tempɯɾa]) is a typical Japanese dish usually consisting of seafood, meat and vegetables that have been battered and deep fried. The dish was introduced by the Portuguese in Nagasaki through fritter-cooking techniques in the 16th century. The word tempura comes from the Latin word tempora, a term referring to times of fasting when the church dictated that Catholics go meatless.[1] * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tempura https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tempura

dagmx 4y ago
A lot of Japanese dishes that are popular today have foreign origins. Tempura, curry, ramen, and salmon for sushi. It’s why I find it hilarious when some people obsess over the authenticity of Japanese food and deride fusion cuisine. It (much like most great cuisines) is the result of intermixing and interpretations of dishes. Many Indian dishes too wouldn’t have existed without foreign interaction. Potato dishes obviously (which are very prevalent) but even things like Butter chicken or many Mughal based dishes. The origin of food is in many ways just as as interesting as the etymology of words.
- ipqk 4y ago
  One of my favorite Indian dishes is Poori Masala (eaten with Poori obviously), which is mostly potatoes & tomatoes, both of which come from the New World.
  - dagmx 4y ago
    I was trying to think of which of my childhood dishes could have existed without the new world imports. So much of Indian cuisine today is so heavily influenced by the new world. I found this Reddit thread that went into it a bit which I found quite fascinating. https://reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/comments/4rwri1/what_was_indian_food_like_before_contact_with_the/ https://reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/comments/4rwri1/what_was_... Even the lentil dishes, where lentils were native, now have a lot of new world additions to enhance them.
- 4y ago

brigandish 4y ago

> So if you are craving for spice in Japan, try one of the two thousand "Indian" restaurants and you will not be disappointed. Erm, if you've had a proper curry recently then you probably will be. Like everywhere else, foreign foods get tailored to their locality or they die. If you fancy a naan filled with sugar and some pretty bland dishes then try an "Indian" restaurant in Japan. Which should come as no surprise, because plenty of other so-called spicy foods here are a) not spicy, and b) surprisingly/sadly, overly sweet. That's not to say that you can't get a decent curry here, but you'll have to try harder than just walking into a random curry house. And this… > Indian restaurants outnumber the top 3 pizza chains of the country put together! I think the only food more maligned by localisation in Japan than pizza could be Mexican food, which leads us back to spice and sugar. I'm not sure what having more curry houses than pizza huts in Japan proves. It would mean something in the US or Italy, but in Japan? Tastes differ.

sho 4y ago
> spicy foods here are a) not spicy Ha. Can confirm. Lived there 2 years and while I love the food, as far as I can tell there is no food available anywhere in Japan, at all, that the average south east asian would recognise as even mildly spicy. And outside the home islands I have observed Japanese people reacting hilariously to the actually spicy local food. My favourite was a co-worker who literally collapsed to the floor in the foetal position moaning after eating a mala hotpot which was, at best, medium heat. Love the people, love the country, but Golden Curry's bright warning red "EXTRA HOT" is not bloody hot at all.
- Rebelgecko 4y ago
  That's surprising, when I get Coco Ichibanya I think level 4-6 is already fairly spicy
  - johnwalkr 4y ago
    Yeah I was gonna say this. Coco (and also smaller competing chain gogo) is Japanese curry that you can find in every city and can be ordered extremely spicy. And it’s not by default but any of the Indian curry places will make it very spicy if you ask. I’ve also gone out of my way to look up the most authentic places for a specific dish, and been able to order something so spicy I could barely finish it. All of that being said, mild is definitely what to expect unless you ask for spicy or go out of your way for a specific dish.

Brajeshwar 4y ago

I'm not much into food. I'm kinda the "I eat because I have to." My disclaimer is that I'm not an expert but here are a few interesting stories that might be relevant to this story. I come from a place where there is a huge influence of the Japanese and grew up in folklores punctuated with Japanese stories. I got to know a tad more, when one of my school-friend took a keen interest in digging up British and Japanese soldiers remains from the World War, built a museum, and is regularly invited as a diplomat by both the Japanese and the British. I grew up visiting many Japanese monuments, including the last stand of the INA's holding place in India where Subhas Chandra Bose worked with the Japanese. For the food, from the story, I'm of the believe that the curry is more Bengal-ish than further mainland India. The food from my place are a major blend of our olden recipes spiced up with the Bengali recipe, with an additional dose of East Asia. Also, most Indian Restaurants in India, if not owned, are pretty much run (cooks, etc.) by Nepalese. And most "Chinese" restaurants by Bengalis. Of course, the "Chinese" food in India are, well, very very Indian-ised. I also grow up memorizing most scenes from "Bridge on the River Kwai" as that bridge, after crossing, goes through my home-stage to advance into India during the war.

rayiner 4y ago
> Also, most Indian Restaurants in India, if not owned, are pretty much run (cooks, etc.) by Nepalese. And most "Chinese" restaurants by Bengalis. Of course, the "Chinese" food in India are, well, very very Indian-ised. A great many Indian restaurants in the US are also owned by Bengalis. I visited a Bangladeshi restaurant in Atlanta that was advertised as such. The owner mentioned that most of the Indian restaurants in the city were owned by Bengalis, so he decided to be open about it when he started his own.
- nerdponx 4y ago
  I used to live above a very conventional Indian restaurant in New York, and once in conversation the owner mentioned to me that he was from Bangladesh. I asked him if were any interesting special dishes from Bangladesh that we don't normally see on Indian restaurant menus in America, and he just shrugged and said something to the effect of "meh, it's all the same anyway." I thought that was kind of interesting. The food also wasn't particularly good, so maybe he just isn't really a food guy and came into owning the business somehow other than a passion for the culinary arts.

riffraff 4y ago

I see your curry imported by British, and I raise you Spaghetti Naporitan[0], pasta with ketchup and american bacon invented by a Japanese who was inspired by US army rations. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naporitan https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naporitan

JumpCrisscross 4y ago
And “carbonara is an American recipe” [1]. (Budae-jjigae is closer to your example [2].) [1] https://www.ft.com/content/6ac009d5-dbfd-4a86-839e-28bb44b2b64c https://www.ft.com/content/6ac009d5-dbfd-4a86-839e-28bb44b2b... [2] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Budae-jjigae https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Budae-jjigae
Rebelgecko 4y ago
Interesting to compare/contrast with how in the Philippines it's popular to eat spaghetti with ketchup (or a ketchup-y sweet tomato sauce) and chopped up hot dog
abudabi123 4y ago
Amex celebrity chef Jack Chaplin does a quick chicken curry in five minutes. + https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nW6BwqVKtsU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nW6BwqVKtsU

anuraj 4y ago

"Now to be clear, India has no such dish as a curry. No self-respecting Indian restaurant has a "curry" on their menu. They would have a Palak Paneer or a Malai Kofta or a Murgh Makhani - all of which we lump into "curry" - but no "curry" - This is patently wrong. Curry is a South Indian word referring to vegetables originally (Malakkarry means vegetables). Come to Kerala - you have Moru Curry (Butter Milk Curry) , Erachi Curry (Beef Curry), Tharavu Curry (Duck Curry) etc. The author is a North Indian oblivious of curry history. "കറി വെപ്പാനെന്തുള്ളത് കാട്ടിൽ, വിറകിന് മാത്രം മുട്ടില്ലിവിടെ" [kari veppaanenthullathu kaattil, virakinu maathram muttillivide] "What is there to make curry in the forest? Only firewood is available here" - Kiraatham Thullal by Kunchan Nambiar, Malayalam poet Circa 1750 AD.

user- 4y ago
> Now to be clear, India has no such dish as a curry Shit, gotta go ask my mom what shes been calling curry my whole life then.
kizunajp 4y ago
As I clarified in another comment, I was trying to make the point that curry is a genre of foods (as your examples illustrate). https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35400253#35400453 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35400253#35400453
- whitemary 4y ago
  With all due respect, you failed at making that point, but now at least your intentions are understood.
  - kizunajp 4y ago
    I agree. Half the comments are about that one statement. You might be on to something here..
    - dfxm12 4y ago
      FWIW, I understood exactly what you meant on first reading. Now to be clear, India has no such dish as a curry. The wording "no such dish as a curry" is a little ambiguous here as to if you mean a single menu item called "curry" or items from the genre of curry. This might be were people are tripping up. However, you make yourself crystal clear with the following sentences: No self-respecting Indian restaurant has a "curry" on their menu. They would have a Palak Paneer or a Malai Kofta or a Murgh Makhani - all of which we lump into "curry" - but no "curry". If someone is saying you failed at making this point, I'm not sure they read the whole paragraph, or are just willfully ignoring the context and are looking for an argument.

sandGorgon 4y ago

this is a beautiful story, thank you for writing it. Curry is much like India - you believe in it, thats why it exists. And you will curry controversy no matter what you write ;) also, in case you didnt know - Ras Behari Bose and Subhash Chandra Bose are the most mysterious of Indian freedom fighters. With the exact history unknown to this day. Ras Behari Bose created the INA and adopted the resolution that made Subhash Chandra Bose as the leader, while he was living in Japan. Even today, the Indian parliament is rocked with demands that the "secret files" be opened. The Netaji papers were recently declassified - https://nationalarchives.nic.in/content/netaji-papers https://nationalarchives.nic.in/content/netaji-papers - but the papers are not complete. Japan has consistently REFUSED to declassify some of the Bose files (https://thewire.in/history/japan-netaji-death-files https://thewire.in/history/japan-netaji-death-files) So you see, the Japanese curry is far far more mysterious than you think !

fsckboy 4y ago

>The surprising roots of Japan's Indian curry Vermont? https://www.reddit.com/r/vermont/comments/bejqjj/yeah_vermont_has_great_cheese_but/ https://www.reddit.com/r/vermont/comments/bejqjj/yeah_vermon... https://www.sevendaysvt.com/vermont/why-is-japans-most-popular-curry-called-vermont-curry/Content?oid=27434116 https://www.sevendaysvt.com/vermont/why-is-japans-most-popul...

kizunajp 4y ago

The post title was changed to drop the "surprising". Not sure why?

johnwalkr 4y ago

The bit about ubiquitous Nepali-owned restaurants makes me nostalgic for living in Japan. They may not be authentic but they are great for lunch. Typically, at lunchtime, 2 small curries, naan, salad and a soft drink bar is ¥800-¥1000. And it’s served instantly.

thesalsabear 4y ago

Why are Indians getting taught about Indian food?

_shantaram 4y ago
I doubt it's as deep as you think it is. The author found an interesting story to tell and told it.
- thesalsabear 4y ago
  I was talking about the comment section.
  - _shantaram 4y ago
    Ah, well, even in that case there's still a lot of things Indian people don't know about Indian food. Just by virtue of being Indian we do not learn everything there is to know about Indian people / food / culture.
    - thesalsabear 4y ago
      @_shantaram Maybe. I recommend that you find something other an online chat section to learn about Indian food!
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
rawicki 4y ago
From experience of traveling to many countries and talking with people about food - not everyone is interested in it. I've heard many bad recommendations or people surprised I know the dishes they have never tried. And that's okay.
- thesalsabear 4y ago
  But I read stuff like: > Now to be clear, India has no such dish as a curry from the "educators" here

disqard 4y ago

Thank you for writing this! I am Bengali, and did not know this about Rash Behari Bose.