6 ms·

This is my dream for a strong social safety net, maybe up to a UBI. If you could actually provide for people’s basic needs by default, people would lean in to p

This is my dream for a strong social safety net, maybe up to a UBI. If you could actually provide for people’s basic needs by default, people would lean in to passion projects like these. I think these are some of the most wonderful parts of being human.

AH4oFVbPT4f8 4y ago
Mine as well, being able to give advice about personal finances, computers, providing mentorship. Lifehacker used to be one of my favorite websites, it's a shame what it has become.
- Ensorceled 4y ago
  Let us say “had become” and give them a chance here.
  - AH4oFVbPT4f8 4y ago
    100%, i'm hoping it can reclaim its former glory
JohnBooty 4y ago
This is my dream for a strong social safety net, maybe up to a UBI Amen. Many, many artists in the UK have commented how they could not possibly have pursued a career in the arts without the safety net of the NHS (National Health Service)
- version_five 4y ago
  Is there evidence the UK has a better arts scene, by any measure, than the US?
  - jwagenet 4y ago
    I’ve always felt the UK has an outsize contribution to music, especially in modern electronic/dance music, compared to the US.
    - TylerE 4y ago
      Arguably at least 3/5 of the greatest rock and roll hands of all time were British (Pick any of: Beatles, Rolling Stones, Led Zeppelin, Cream, Queen, Pink Floyd, Tne Clash…) A very large percentage of the musicians in those bands were graduates of the “Art Schools” of the time, which were like STEM schools, just, well, art.
      - dboreham 4y ago
        Except Queen, where three of the members have real degrees. <ducks>
        TylerE 4y ago
        The arts schools were more like high school/trade school hybrids.
      - jwagenet 4y ago
        Yes absolutely. In my mind, the US has had a robust rock and pop history, but name an artist pre 2000 and a good chance they are from the UK. The US slays now with hip hop and r&b, but the UK has their own unique scenes like grime, which aren’t big in the states.
  - yusefnapora 4y ago
    How would you even measure that? Art is inherently subjective, and the “arts scene” even more so.
  - miguelazo 4y ago
    The more important question is how many people are unable to survive as artists in the US, and how much work is compromised just to make ends meet. This is also something that afflicts journalism to a very high degree in the US. Hence why certain topics are untouchable for US corporate media.
    - version_five 4y ago
      > The more important question is Says you. We're talking about public money being spent. I certainly don't agree that maximizing the number of people who can survive as artists is a good public policy goal. And I interpret "compromised" here to be producing something people want. That's vital, it's not a downside.
      - staticman2 4y ago
        Fortunately providing healthcare to the public has public policy benefits besides maximizing the number of people who can survive as artists. It causes the population to have higher life expectancy, for one thing. This is much easier to measure than who has the best artists.
        version_five 4y ago
        Why are you posting that in reply to a thread about how healthcare encourages artists?
        staticman2 4y ago
        Because you brought up public funding. This National Health Service is not a government program designed to promote the arts, so the issue of whether it "helps artists" is orthogonal to whether it is a good use of public funds.
      - miguelazo 4y ago
        That's just one of many, many examples, which I chose because the thread was already about artists. I also mentioned journalism, which you completely ignored.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
  - JohnBooty 4y ago
    I don't know how we'd quantify that in any objective way. Subjectively, it has 1/5 the population of the US and its influence is rather large. But really, what's the counterargument here? We're not sure if it's good for artists to have healthcare? I'm not sure the quality of the "arts scene" is the right question to ask.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- dboreham 4y ago
  It's changed a bit now, but back in the day in addition to free healthcare, you could get free higher education (actually the government would pay you), and free money for not having a job in the summer break.
- asdff 4y ago
  These days that's changed somewhat in the US after the affordable care act. I just did the covered california calculator for my area, using an income estimate of $30k (less than what in n out starts at these days, honestly), medium use of doctor visits and prescriptions, and came up with bronze plans at $25 a month and silver plans at $75 a month.
PragmaticPulp 4y ago
Even the most generous UBI proposals are basically a “don’t starve to death” level of income. Maybe fine for a 20 year old who is couch surfing and working on their blog for a while, but UBI isn’t a realistic solution to free everyone from the need to work. The idea of a UBI that provides a comfortable lifestyle for anyone who doesn’t want to work a normal job is just a pipe dream.
- Semaphor 4y ago
  But they could then supplement that income with their blog. Once the bare essentials are taken care off, you have more options with low paying passion projects
- mumblemumble 4y ago
  I think there's room to assume a little more steel in the man you're responding to. The statement wasn't "UBI frees people from the need to work"; it was something more like "UBI might embolden people to pursue passion projects since they'd have reduced fear of financial ruin." The latter seems plausible to me. I have personally decided not to pursue a startup idea because I didn't want to take a ride on the venture capital pain train, and I also didn't want to drop my income all the way to zero and start burning through my savings in order to do it. UBI might have changed that calculus.
  - scarface74 4y ago
    Opposite opinion, why should society fund your startup idea and take the risk if you couldn’t convince investors to back your idea or you don’t have enough confidence in your own vision to take the risk with your own savings? Now I do believe in universal healthcare.
    - richk449 4y ago
      Who is saying that society should fund someone’s startup idea?
    - dfinninger 4y ago

AH4oFVbPT4f8 4y ago

Mine as well, being able to give advice about personal finances, computers, providing mentorship. Lifehacker used to be one of my favorite websites, it's a shame what it has become.

Ensorceled 4y ago
Let us say “had become” and give them a chance here.
- AH4oFVbPT4f8 4y ago
  100%, i'm hoping it can reclaim its former glory

JohnBooty 4y ago

This is my dream for a strong social safety net, maybe up to a UBI Amen. Many, many artists in the UK have commented how they could not possibly have pursued a career in the arts without the safety net of the NHS (National Health Service)

version_five 4y ago
Is there evidence the UK has a better arts scene, by any measure, than the US?
- jwagenet 4y ago
  I’ve always felt the UK has an outsize contribution to music, especially in modern electronic/dance music, compared to the US.
  - TylerE 4y ago
    Arguably at least 3/5 of the greatest rock and roll hands of all time were British (Pick any of: Beatles, Rolling Stones, Led Zeppelin, Cream, Queen, Pink Floyd, Tne Clash…) A very large percentage of the musicians in those bands were graduates of the “Art Schools” of the time, which were like STEM schools, just, well, art.
    - dboreham 4y ago
      Except Queen, where three of the members have real degrees. <ducks>
      - TylerE 4y ago
        The arts schools were more like high school/trade school hybrids.
    - jwagenet 4y ago
      Yes absolutely. In my mind, the US has had a robust rock and pop history, but name an artist pre 2000 and a good chance they are from the UK. The US slays now with hip hop and r&b, but the UK has their own unique scenes like grime, which aren’t big in the states.
- yusefnapora 4y ago
  How would you even measure that? Art is inherently subjective, and the “arts scene” even more so.
- miguelazo 4y ago
  The more important question is how many people are unable to survive as artists in the US, and how much work is compromised just to make ends meet. This is also something that afflicts journalism to a very high degree in the US. Hence why certain topics are untouchable for US corporate media.
  - version_five 4y ago
    > The more important question is Says you. We're talking about public money being spent. I certainly don't agree that maximizing the number of people who can survive as artists is a good public policy goal. And I interpret "compromised" here to be producing something people want. That's vital, it's not a downside.
    - staticman2 4y ago
      Fortunately providing healthcare to the public has public policy benefits besides maximizing the number of people who can survive as artists. It causes the population to have higher life expectancy, for one thing. This is much easier to measure than who has the best artists.
      - version_five 4y ago
        Why are you posting that in reply to a thread about how healthcare encourages artists?
        staticman2 4y ago
        Because you brought up public funding. This National Health Service is not a government program designed to promote the arts, so the issue of whether it "helps artists" is orthogonal to whether it is a good use of public funds.
    - miguelazo 4y ago
      That's just one of many, many examples, which I chose because the thread was already about artists. I also mentioned journalism, which you completely ignored.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- JohnBooty 4y ago
  I don't know how we'd quantify that in any objective way. Subjectively, it has 1/5 the population of the US and its influence is rather large. But really, what's the counterargument here? We're not sure if it's good for artists to have healthcare? I'm not sure the quality of the "arts scene" is the right question to ask.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
dboreham 4y ago
It's changed a bit now, but back in the day in addition to free healthcare, you could get free higher education (actually the government would pay you), and free money for not having a job in the summer break.
asdff 4y ago
These days that's changed somewhat in the US after the affordable care act. I just did the covered california calculator for my area, using an income estimate of $30k (less than what in n out starts at these days, honestly), medium use of doctor visits and prescriptions, and came up with bronze plans at $25 a month and silver plans at $75 a month.

PragmaticPulp 4y ago

Even the most generous UBI proposals are basically a “don’t starve to death” level of income. Maybe fine for a 20 year old who is couch surfing and working on their blog for a while, but UBI isn’t a realistic solution to free everyone from the need to work. The idea of a UBI that provides a comfortable lifestyle for anyone who doesn’t want to work a normal job is just a pipe dream.

Semaphor 4y ago
But they could then supplement that income with their blog. Once the bare essentials are taken care off, you have more options with low paying passion projects
mumblemumble 4y ago
I think there's room to assume a little more steel in the man you're responding to. The statement wasn't "UBI frees people from the need to work"; it was something more like "UBI might embolden people to pursue passion projects since they'd have reduced fear of financial ruin." The latter seems plausible to me. I have personally decided not to pursue a startup idea because I didn't want to take a ride on the venture capital pain train, and I also didn't want to drop my income all the way to zero and start burning through my savings in order to do it. UBI might have changed that calculus.
- scarface74 4y ago
  Opposite opinion, why should society fund your startup idea and take the risk if you couldn’t convince investors to back your idea or you don’t have enough confidence in your own vision to take the risk with your own savings? Now I do believe in universal healthcare.
  - richk449 4y ago
    Who is saying that society should fund someone’s startup idea?
  - dfinninger 4y ago