4 ms·

Yep, after over a decade of trying to run independent mail servers we finally broke down and switched to SendInBlue and SendGrid last year. Even if you do ever

Yep, after over a decade of trying to run independent mail servers we finally broke down and switched to SendInBlue and SendGrid last year. Even if you do everything right, it's just not possible to get gmail to reliably deliver mail unless you use one of the big services for smtp. It's really disappointing. Edit: We can at least keep using our servers for incoming mail, and just use those for sending.

mouse_ 4y ago
Anyone embracing and extending anything to the point of Gmail should be held suspect.
- echelon 4y ago
  Newsgroups, RSS, ... Google kills a lot of the bigger ecosystem.
  - MBCook 4y ago
    Web browsers…
  - m-p-3 4y ago
    At least they didn't kill instant messaging with their disastrous strategy.
    - tambourine_man 4y ago
      Not for the lack of trying, just sheer incompetence.
    - pvb 4y ago
      they did kill quiet a bit of the XMPP ecosystem imho...
  - zitterbewegung 4y ago
    Embrace, extend then extinguish.
  - theamk 4y ago
    Pretty sure newsgroups were killed by spam and lack of moderation. I spent a lot of time on them back in the day, and by the time Google got in the game they were already dying. By the time they digested Deja, Usenet was a tiny fraction of original size (if you discard spam). (Not to mention lack of basic features. I've got a laptop at some point and wanted to synchronize read status between my devices. I ended up writing NNTP to Maildir converter so I can use my IMAP server for this. Not pretty.)
    - joecool1029 4y ago
      Google continues to hold the pillow over Usenet text newsgroups. Google Groups is by far the largest enabler and gateway of spam onto Usenet and they don't respond to abuse complaints.
      - iggldiggl 4y ago
        And then ironically they're blocking access to some newsgroups (and more annoyingly especially their archives) because they contain too much spam. Gee, thanks for nothing…
- Gigachad 4y ago
  No one will do anything because free and independent email is less valuable to the general public than spam free email. HN loves to downplay the existence of abuse on the internet. Gmail isn't dropping your emails as some big evil corporate plan, it's collateral damage in a war on unimaginable amounts of spam.
  - chillbill 4y ago
    Education > Regulations
  - GoblinSlayer 4y ago
    Aliases make spam free email, see e.g. https://simplelogin.io/ https://simplelogin.io/
noncoml 4y ago
(Replied in bad faith. Deleting it)
- marricks 4y ago
  I don't think so. The post claims there's ways to deal with spam without trusting single authorities to police it. Additionally, the linked post explains that if you get flagged as spam or "sending to many emails" there's literally no way to fix it without sounding the alarm in a post like this.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
- tempestn 4y ago
  For all email. I disagree that marketing email in general is a problem though. Eg. we send a monthly newsletter that is explicitly marketing, but it's opt-in (not opt-out; users need to explicitly choose to receive it), so I'm not sure what the harm is there. And yes, it's easy to unsubscribe too. Unsolicited marketing email is a problem, and I don't think we send anything that a reasonable person could categorize as that. We send -replies to user support requests -new vehicle listing alerts that users have explicitly signed up for (eg by running a search for a car on autotempest and then entering their email address in the "get alerts for this search" field) -monthly newsletter, again with explicit opt-in only And I send a handful of personal B2B emails.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
  - throwaway67743 4y ago
    Users are stupid, they just hit spam because they can't be bothered to unsubscribe or are too dumb to realise it's from someone they have an existing relationship with - people love giving end users the benefit of the doubt but they really don't deserve it.
pas 4y ago
What kind of emails are you sending, how many, what kind of errors you have ran into? Throttling or the silent discard? We had almost no issues with Gmail, only with Outlook "Protection"
TheNewsIsHere 4y ago
I ran my own email server for many years. It was fun, easy, and gave me a lot of freedom and power. Gmail was never an issue for me, but I put a lot of effort into it. Others have not had such promising results. For me, it wasn’t Gmail. It was Proofpoint and Microsoft. During a very email-critical time I couldn’t get emails out to certain Proofpoint customers or to Hotmail.com addresses (specifically). And it was important enough for me to switch rather than try to fix. Microsoft was likely arguably fixable but Proofpoint wanted me to prove ownership and control over the entire IP allotment from which my mail was emanating in order to lift the restriction on my single IP. That wasn’t possible because I didn’t control the entire space my IP was in. It’s become increasingly difficult to operate email independently without a lot more money and time at the least. This worries me.

mouse_ 4y ago

Anyone embracing and extending anything to the point of Gmail should be held suspect.

echelon 4y ago
Newsgroups, RSS, ... Google kills a lot of the bigger ecosystem.
- MBCook 4y ago
  Web browsers…
- m-p-3 4y ago
  At least they didn't kill instant messaging with their disastrous strategy.
  - tambourine_man 4y ago
    Not for the lack of trying, just sheer incompetence.
  - pvb 4y ago
    they did kill quiet a bit of the XMPP ecosystem imho...
- zitterbewegung 4y ago
  Embrace, extend then extinguish.
- theamk 4y ago
  Pretty sure newsgroups were killed by spam and lack of moderation. I spent a lot of time on them back in the day, and by the time Google got in the game they were already dying. By the time they digested Deja, Usenet was a tiny fraction of original size (if you discard spam). (Not to mention lack of basic features. I've got a laptop at some point and wanted to synchronize read status between my devices. I ended up writing NNTP to Maildir converter so I can use my IMAP server for this. Not pretty.)
  - joecool1029 4y ago
    Google continues to hold the pillow over Usenet text newsgroups. Google Groups is by far the largest enabler and gateway of spam onto Usenet and they don't respond to abuse complaints.
    - iggldiggl 4y ago
      And then ironically they're blocking access to some newsgroups (and more annoyingly especially their archives) because they contain too much spam. Gee, thanks for nothing…
Gigachad 4y ago
No one will do anything because free and independent email is less valuable to the general public than spam free email. HN loves to downplay the existence of abuse on the internet. Gmail isn't dropping your emails as some big evil corporate plan, it's collateral damage in a war on unimaginable amounts of spam.
- chillbill 4y ago
  Education > Regulations
- GoblinSlayer 4y ago
  Aliases make spam free email, see e.g. https://simplelogin.io/ https://simplelogin.io/

noncoml 4y ago

(Replied in bad faith. Deleting it)

marricks 4y ago
I don't think so. The post claims there's ways to deal with spam without trusting single authorities to police it. Additionally, the linked post explains that if you get flagged as spam or "sending to many emails" there's literally no way to fix it without sounding the alarm in a post like this.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
tempestn 4y ago
For all email. I disagree that marketing email in general is a problem though. Eg. we send a monthly newsletter that is explicitly marketing, but it's opt-in (not opt-out; users need to explicitly choose to receive it), so I'm not sure what the harm is there. And yes, it's easy to unsubscribe too. Unsolicited marketing email is a problem, and I don't think we send anything that a reasonable person could categorize as that. We send -replies to user support requests -new vehicle listing alerts that users have explicitly signed up for (eg by running a search for a car on autotempest and then entering their email address in the "get alerts for this search" field) -monthly newsletter, again with explicit opt-in only And I send a handful of personal B2B emails.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- throwaway67743 4y ago
  Users are stupid, they just hit spam because they can't be bothered to unsubscribe or are too dumb to realise it's from someone they have an existing relationship with - people love giving end users the benefit of the doubt but they really don't deserve it.

pas 4y ago

What kind of emails are you sending, how many, what kind of errors you have ran into? Throttling or the silent discard? We had almost no issues with Gmail, only with Outlook "Protection"

TheNewsIsHere 4y ago

I ran my own email server for many years. It was fun, easy, and gave me a lot of freedom and power. Gmail was never an issue for me, but I put a lot of effort into it. Others have not had such promising results. For me, it wasn’t Gmail. It was Proofpoint and Microsoft. During a very email-critical time I couldn’t get emails out to certain Proofpoint customers or to Hotmail.com addresses (specifically). And it was important enough for me to switch rather than try to fix. Microsoft was likely arguably fixable but Proofpoint wanted me to prove ownership and control over the entire IP allotment from which my mail was emanating in order to lift the restriction on my single IP. That wasn’t possible because I didn’t control the entire space my IP was in. It’s become increasingly difficult to operate email independently without a lot more money and time at the least. This worries me.