5 ms·

Appreciate the chime-in and honesty. > If building a valuable product, talking to users, and focusing on facts sounds good to you, you should consider applying

by rsp1984 4y ago

Appreciate the chime-in and honesty. > If building a valuable product, talking to users, and focusing on facts sounds good to you, you should consider applying to YC. Also being perfectly honest, it does sound very appealing, but I'm afraid it unfortunately just isn't what makes startups successful in 2023. Speaking from personal experience and carrying the battle scars.

dang 4y ago
It's certainly not sufficient and experiencing that in practice is painful and sucks.
TaylorAlexander 4y ago
I’d be curious what does make them successful.
- jay_kyburz 4y ago
  Making the "right" product, and talking to the "right" customers.
  - satvikpendem 4y ago
    That's encompassed by "valuable" in "valuable product." If it's not the right product for the right customer, it won't have value.
  - aledalgrande 4y ago
    At the right time. That last part is more or less luck (and you need to have already done the other two)
mritchie712 4y ago
building a valuable product doesn't make you successful in 2023? Please, elaborate.
- dustingetz 4y ago
  * markets measure sentiment * capital flows through trust networks * the important thing is not how things are but how they seem to be (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wiio%27s_laws https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wiio%27s_laws) * Curse of Development: the depth of any transaction is limited by the depth of the shallower party (https://www.dustingetz.com/#/page/the%20curse%20of%20development https://www.dustingetz.com/#/page/the%20curse%20of%20develop...) * You Can't Tell People Anything (https://www.dustingetz.com/#/page/you%20can't%20tell%20people%20anything%20(you%20have%20to%20show%20them) https://www.dustingetz.com/#/page/you%20can't%20tell%20peopl...) * Much Madness is Divinest Sense (https://www.dustingetz.com/#/page/much%20madness%20is%20divinest%20sense https://www.dustingetz.com/#/page/much%20madness%20is%20divi...) * Sufficiently Powerful Optimization Of Any Known Target Destroys All Value (https://www.dustingetz.com/#/page/sufficiently%20powerful%20optimization%20of%20any%20known%20target%20destroys%20all%20value https://www.dustingetz.com/#/page/sufficiently%20powerful%20...)
  - mvkel 4y ago
    These all sound like marketing tactic problems, not fundamental "build something valuable" problems.
  - MichaelZuo 4y ago
    How does this invalidate the possibility of a valuable product leading to success?
- majani 4y ago
  At least on the consumer side of things it doesn't. The consumer-facing side of the internet is quite mature. You are fighting for consumers' attention with giant companies that have addiction down to a science. Furthermore there are entire categories of the internet that have people's attention on lock (social media, video, music, gaming, news, chat, e-commerce and gambling). Breaking through all that existing noise is super tough now, a valuable product won't cut it. If you look at the big consumer-facing successes post-2015 (TikTok, OpenAI, Fortnite, Disney+), they all spent obscene amounts of money to get where they are at now

dang 4y ago

It's certainly not sufficient and experiencing that in practice is painful and sucks.

TaylorAlexander 4y ago

I’d be curious what does make them successful.

jay_kyburz 4y ago
Making the "right" product, and talking to the "right" customers.
- satvikpendem 4y ago
  That's encompassed by "valuable" in "valuable product." If it's not the right product for the right customer, it won't have value.
- aledalgrande 4y ago
  At the right time. That last part is more or less luck (and you need to have already done the other two)

mritchie712 4y ago

building a valuable product doesn't make you successful in 2023? Please, elaborate.

dustingetz 4y ago
* markets measure sentiment * capital flows through trust networks * the important thing is not how things are but how they seem to be (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wiio%27s_laws https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wiio%27s_laws) * Curse of Development: the depth of any transaction is limited by the depth of the shallower party (https://www.dustingetz.com/#/page/the%20curse%20of%20development https://www.dustingetz.com/#/page/the%20curse%20of%20develop...) * You Can't Tell People Anything (https://www.dustingetz.com/#/page/you%20can't%20tell%20people%20anything%20(you%20have%20to%20show%20them) https://www.dustingetz.com/#/page/you%20can't%20tell%20peopl...) * Much Madness is Divinest Sense (https://www.dustingetz.com/#/page/much%20madness%20is%20divinest%20sense https://www.dustingetz.com/#/page/much%20madness%20is%20divi...) * Sufficiently Powerful Optimization Of Any Known Target Destroys All Value (https://www.dustingetz.com/#/page/sufficiently%20powerful%20optimization%20of%20any%20known%20target%20destroys%20all%20value https://www.dustingetz.com/#/page/sufficiently%20powerful%20...)
- mvkel 4y ago
  These all sound like marketing tactic problems, not fundamental "build something valuable" problems.
- MichaelZuo 4y ago
  How does this invalidate the possibility of a valuable product leading to success?
majani 4y ago
At least on the consumer side of things it doesn't. The consumer-facing side of the internet is quite mature. You are fighting for consumers' attention with giant companies that have addiction down to a science. Furthermore there are entire categories of the internet that have people's attention on lock (social media, video, music, gaming, news, chat, e-commerce and gambling). Breaking through all that existing noise is super tough now, a valuable product won't cut it. If you look at the big consumer-facing successes post-2015 (TikTok, OpenAI, Fortnite, Disney+), they all spent obscene amounts of money to get where they are at now