5 ms·

Lyft in Trouble

30 points by cliquecover 4y ago

rideontime 4y ago
Funny that he left the incorrect numbers in his tweet and pointed to his blog for the fixed numbers, even though he’s paying for the ability to edit tweets. That’s one way to drive traffic, I guess.
- selimthegrim 4y ago
  He claims he can’t edit after they’re posted.
  - diebeforei485 4y ago
    It's correct that Tweets can't be edited after a certain amount of time. But given how incorrect this information is, he should delete this tweet.
    - gregdoesit 4y ago
      I wrote the tweet. Didn’t realize it’s would be posted here. I cannot edit tweets after it has replies (apparently by design). I added follow-up tweets, but seeing those are not read: I deleted the tweet. Here are numbers in context, not looking at stock-based comp: https://blog.pragmaticengineer.com/ https://blog.pragmaticengineer.com/
      - diebeforei485 4y ago
        Thank you! > I cannot edit tweets after it has replies (apparently by design). I think this is to counter a situation of people posting something adorable to get lots of likes/retweets leading to plenty of fan-out to millions of people's feeds, then replacing the content with something inflammatory.
paxys 4y ago
As a reply further down points out, half of their loss is in the form of stock based comp and that doesn't affect free cash flow, so Lyft isn't quite going out business in the next year. The situation is still pretty dire, however. It's crazy to me that Lyft still hasn't entered the food and grocery delivery market when it has been abundantly clear for years that that's where the money is. And in 10+ years of operation they still haven't been able to launch in a single location outside the US.
- Scoundreller 4y ago
  It will affect their cashflow if they can’t continue to pay staff in stock based comp. Lyft operates in Canada.
  - umeshunni 4y ago
    > It will affect their cashflow if they can’t continue to pay staff in stock based comp. That's not how cashflow or stock based comp works. Lyft doesn't buy stock off the market and use it to pay their employees - they just issue new stock.
    - danielmarkbruce 4y ago
      Pretty sure they are commenting on the fact that employees won't continue to accept funny money. In which case they may have to pay a larger % of comp in cash to stay competitive and hence it will affect cashflow.
- okdood64 4y ago
  > has been abundantly clear for years that that's where the money is Can you provide some data for this? Previous discussion: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26392154 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26392154
- lazyant 4y ago
  Lyft manages or is the owner of companies that manage bikes/ebikes/scooters in multiple cities around the world.
umeshunni 4y ago
https://twitter.com/paulwulff/status/1641093942702637057 https://twitter.com/paulwulff/status/1641093942702637057
bgirard 4y ago
Which part of stock comp is causing the issue? Is this what was granted this year but is vesting over multiple (e.g. 4 years)? Is this the stock granted in past years but vesting this year?
- thundergolfer 4y ago
  It's explained in the associated article: https://blog.pragmaticengineer.com/lyft-in-trouble/ https://blog.pragmaticengineer.com/lyft-in-trouble/
gregdoesit 4y ago
I wrote this tweet but didn’t realize it would get picked up. The numbers are not correct (or ant least misleading due to stock-based comp) and I can’t edit it. I deleted the tweet and here are correct numbers: https://blog.pragmaticengineer.com/ https://blog.pragmaticengineer.com/
- cliquecover 4y ago
  Thanks for the clarification! Also your blog is great
- dang 4y ago
  Ok, we've changed the URL from https://twitter.com/GergelyOrosz/status/1641089770796249088 https://twitter.com/GergelyOrosz/status/1641089770796249088 to https://blog.pragmaticengineer.com/lyft-in-trouble/ https://blog.pragmaticengineer.com/lyft-in-trouble/. Thanks!
ryan_lane 4y ago
How much stock does the author still have in Uber?
- gregdoesit 4y ago
  sigh I am the author. I have zero stock or any financial exposure in Uber, Lyft, or any other company I mention: and in the rare cases that I do have (because I am an investor) then I disclose it. Here's the list of all companies I've invested (and I no longer invest in any, exactly to avoid biases) [1]. I don't get paid to write about companies. All of what I write is my analysis and opinion. Here is my ethics policy [2], and the article starts by mentioning the above, as well as linking to my ethics policy. [1] https://blog.pragmaticengineer.com/investing/ https://blog.pragmaticengineer.com/investing/ [2] https://blog.pragmaticengineer.com/ethics-statement/ https://blog.pragmaticengineer.com/ethics-statement/
FooBarBizBazz 4y ago
I hope not. Boo on consolidation. If Lyft were to die, then Uber would be left with a monopoly, it would jack up prices, and we'd be right back to where we were before "ride-sharing", except now higher-tech and more dystopian. In fact, if for-profit ride-hailing consolidates too much, then we should make an easy open source version that local governments can use/administer at cost. It'd be a public good.
- qgin 4y ago
  Very right, but I would say that we have much more access. Just using Pittsburgh as an example. Pre-Uber, you could try to call for a cab to the airport. Maybe they would come in 45 minutes, maybe an hour and a half, maybe never. Even scheduling ahead didn’t help. Now you can get a ride in 5-10 minutes any time.

30 points by cliquecover 4y ago

Funny that he left the incorrect numbers in his tweet and pointed to his blog for the fixed numbers, even though he’s paying for the ability to edit tweets. That’s one way to drive traffic, I guess.

selimthegrim 4y ago
He claims he can’t edit after they’re posted.
- diebeforei485 4y ago
  It's correct that Tweets can't be edited after a certain amount of time. But given how incorrect this information is, he should delete this tweet.
  - gregdoesit 4y ago
    I wrote the tweet. Didn’t realize it’s would be posted here. I cannot edit tweets after it has replies (apparently by design). I added follow-up tweets, but seeing those are not read: I deleted the tweet. Here are numbers in context, not looking at stock-based comp: https://blog.pragmaticengineer.com/ https://blog.pragmaticengineer.com/
    - diebeforei485 4y ago
      Thank you! > I cannot edit tweets after it has replies (apparently by design). I think this is to counter a situation of people posting something adorable to get lots of likes/retweets leading to plenty of fan-out to millions of people's feeds, then replacing the content with something inflammatory.

paxys 4y ago

As a reply further down points out, half of their loss is in the form of stock based comp and that doesn't affect free cash flow, so Lyft isn't quite going out business in the next year. The situation is still pretty dire, however. It's crazy to me that Lyft still hasn't entered the food and grocery delivery market when it has been abundantly clear for years that that's where the money is. And in 10+ years of operation they still haven't been able to launch in a single location outside the US.

Scoundreller 4y ago
It will affect their cashflow if they can’t continue to pay staff in stock based comp. Lyft operates in Canada.
- umeshunni 4y ago
  > It will affect their cashflow if they can’t continue to pay staff in stock based comp. That's not how cashflow or stock based comp works. Lyft doesn't buy stock off the market and use it to pay their employees - they just issue new stock.
  - danielmarkbruce 4y ago
    Pretty sure they are commenting on the fact that employees won't continue to accept funny money. In which case they may have to pay a larger % of comp in cash to stay competitive and hence it will affect cashflow.
okdood64 4y ago
> has been abundantly clear for years that that's where the money is Can you provide some data for this? Previous discussion: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26392154 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26392154
lazyant 4y ago
Lyft manages or is the owner of companies that manage bikes/ebikes/scooters in multiple cities around the world.

umeshunni 4y ago

https://twitter.com/paulwulff/status/1641093942702637057 https://twitter.com/paulwulff/status/1641093942702637057

bgirard 4y ago

Which part of stock comp is causing the issue? Is this what was granted this year but is vesting over multiple (e.g. 4 years)? Is this the stock granted in past years but vesting this year?

thundergolfer 4y ago
It's explained in the associated article: https://blog.pragmaticengineer.com/lyft-in-trouble/ https://blog.pragmaticengineer.com/lyft-in-trouble/

gregdoesit 4y ago

I wrote this tweet but didn’t realize it would get picked up. The numbers are not correct (or ant least misleading due to stock-based comp) and I can’t edit it. I deleted the tweet and here are correct numbers: https://blog.pragmaticengineer.com/ https://blog.pragmaticengineer.com/

cliquecover 4y ago
Thanks for the clarification! Also your blog is great
dang 4y ago
Ok, we've changed the URL from https://twitter.com/GergelyOrosz/status/1641089770796249088 https://twitter.com/GergelyOrosz/status/1641089770796249088 to https://blog.pragmaticengineer.com/lyft-in-trouble/ https://blog.pragmaticengineer.com/lyft-in-trouble/. Thanks!

ryan_lane 4y ago

How much stock does the author still have in Uber?

gregdoesit 4y ago
sigh I am the author. I have zero stock or any financial exposure in Uber, Lyft, or any other company I mention: and in the rare cases that I do have (because I am an investor) then I disclose it. Here's the list of all companies I've invested (and I no longer invest in any, exactly to avoid biases) [1]. I don't get paid to write about companies. All of what I write is my analysis and opinion. Here is my ethics policy [2], and the article starts by mentioning the above, as well as linking to my ethics policy. [1] https://blog.pragmaticengineer.com/investing/ https://blog.pragmaticengineer.com/investing/ [2] https://blog.pragmaticengineer.com/ethics-statement/ https://blog.pragmaticengineer.com/ethics-statement/

FooBarBizBazz 4y ago

I hope not. Boo on consolidation. If Lyft were to die, then Uber would be left with a monopoly, it would jack up prices, and we'd be right back to where we were before "ride-sharing", except now higher-tech and more dystopian. In fact, if for-profit ride-hailing consolidates too much, then we should make an easy open source version that local governments can use/administer at cost. It'd be a public good.

qgin 4y ago
Very right, but I would say that we have much more access. Just using Pittsburgh as an example. Pre-Uber, you could try to call for a cab to the airport. Maybe they would come in 45 minutes, maybe an hour and a half, maybe never. Even scheduling ahead didn’t help. Now you can get a ride in 5-10 minutes any time.