3 ms·

I have heard that newer LED Bulbs now have some kind of built in obsolescence. This is from someone I know who is an engineer working for the US military. I t

by jmclnx 4y ago

I have heard that newer LED Bulbs now have some kind of built in obsolescence. This is from someone I know who is an engineer working for the US military. I told him I had bought some LEDs (started moving over 2 years ago) and that is when he mentioned that. I guess I will find out, so far so good. I did stock up on 100 watt incandescent years ago and have a many left just in case. I found LEDs cause me eye strain, but I experimented and found if I use a Lamp Shade with a slight yellow tinge, I can deal with them.

blakesterz 4y ago
I'm finding this true with the bulbs I've bought in the past 5 or so years. The first one I bought about 15 years ago is still going, but most, if not all more recent LEDs have died. Even the ones in the basement that are mounted with no case to increase the heat around them. I read the "guarantee" when I buy new bulbs but who keeps receipts or track of light bulbs?
- dpkirchner 4y ago
  I'm starting to suspect that it's not the LEDs themselves that are failing but the transformer packed inside the base. I haven't really dug in though. Are there any good brands of LED bulbs these days -- bulbs that are likely to work as long as is claimed on the box? I've already scratched GE and FEIT off the list.
  - projektfu 4y ago
    I've read that it is the controller circuit which is cheaply made. The LED would continue to work fine if the current source hadn't failed. I had a lot of trouble with GU10 LED lamps, finding ones that last as long as a halogen.
  - JKCalhoun 4y ago
    Not exactly "the transformer", but yeah. See the afore-mentioned videos by Big Clive on YouTube to find out how to hack your bulbs to make them last indefinitely (albeit at a reduced light output).
- smallerfish 4y ago
  You can write the install date (and store name) on the bulb housing with a sharpie when you put it in the socket. It's not a receipt but it at least gives you a shot at getting a return when it fails early.
  - OJFord 4y ago
    You could also just write an arbitrary date and the name of the most convenient shop when it fails, so I really don't see what good that does, it's very far from a receipt.
    - fest 4y ago
      At the very least, it gives you an idea which receipt to look for in your box of receipts/warranties. And no, I am not happy about having to think about storing receipts for mundane things like light bulbs either, but it is the only thing that calms down my nerves when yet another bulb with 5 year warranty fails in a year.
      - jwineinger 4y ago
        Or for me, search my google photos for the receipt near that date
    - smallerfish 4y ago
      If you run a store, and a customer comes in and says "I bought this item on $x date; I don't have the receipt but this is how I know", you have two choices: a) you can choose not to trust them b) you can choose to trust them For a $3 item, most retailers would pick #b every time.
Majromax 4y ago
> I have heard that newer LED Bulbs now have some kind of built in obsolescence. This is from someone I know who is an engineer working for the US military. BigClive covers this issue a fair amount on his Youtube teardown videos. It's not exactly built-in obsolescence, so much as being built to cost. The cheapest way to build an LED bulb is to minimize the number of components. Instead of spreading the light emission out over a couple of dozen LEDs, it's cheaper to use a handful of LEDs but really overdrive them with high currents. The result is a bulb that's cheap to make, but in ordinary use the chips and phosphors inside will run at high temperatures and degrade much more quickly. This effect will be even more pronounced with enclosed fixtures (like ceiling lights) that have little to no ventilation. Manufacturers could design their way out of this by increasing the component count (spreading the light generation over more LED chips at lower current), but that's an expense that doesn't translate well to a brand or marketing claim. As it stands, ordinary consumers are unlikely to try to exercise their warranty on a bulb that fails after 1,000 hours rather than a rated 3,000 or so; there's no reason to expect that "this bulb is more expensive but will last a really long time" would make it in the consumer-facing market.
- willidiots 4y ago
  Glad to see someone referencing BigClive's teardowns and explanations. As for the business rationale, I think it's less about consumer demand and more about the recurring revenue for the light manufacturers. Products like this exist where mandated - see his video on the Dubai LEDs - but aren't made broadly available.
  - PoignardAzur 4y ago
    I think GP's explanation is compatible with "Products like this exist where mandated". Even if the producer expects absolutely zero return customers (and therefore no recurring revenue), having the more durable product be more expensive, and durability being hard to advertise, means there's a race to the bottom where the more durable product is competed out of existence. If everybody is forced to make the durable product, the race to the bottom disappears. (Alternatively, having better packaging regulations that make it easier to identify long-lasting products would also help)
Workaccount2 4y ago
They are almost certainly referring to the use of 85°C capacitors. These are much cheaper and die quicker compared to their pricier counterparts. It's not so much "planned obsolescence" as it is "consumers shop on price primarily". And its even harder because there really isn't much benefit to putting specs on your bulbs because 99.9% of consumers won't understand them anyway. What should happen is a mandated "nutrition facts" that gets put on all bulbs so people can familiarize themselves with a standard fact sheet.
- PoignardAzur 4y ago
  I think the european commission was considering something like this with right-to-repair laws? Having a "durability score" on the package, or something like that.
Jiocus 4y ago
Traditional incandescent bulbs were not immune to planned obsolescence, see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phoebus_cartel https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phoebus_cartel “The cartel lowered operational costs and worked to standardize the life expectancy of light bulbs at 1,000 hours (down from 2,500 hours)..”
- anjel 4y ago
  Planned obsolescence and fictitious durability scores are a class action lawsuit waiting to happen

by jmclnx 4y ago

blakesterz 4y ago

I'm finding this true with the bulbs I've bought in the past 5 or so years. The first one I bought about 15 years ago is still going, but most, if not all more recent LEDs have died. Even the ones in the basement that are mounted with no case to increase the heat around them. I read the "guarantee" when I buy new bulbs but who keeps receipts or track of light bulbs?

dpkirchner 4y ago
I'm starting to suspect that it's not the LEDs themselves that are failing but the transformer packed inside the base. I haven't really dug in though. Are there any good brands of LED bulbs these days -- bulbs that are likely to work as long as is claimed on the box? I've already scratched GE and FEIT off the list.
- projektfu 4y ago
  I've read that it is the controller circuit which is cheaply made. The LED would continue to work fine if the current source hadn't failed. I had a lot of trouble with GU10 LED lamps, finding ones that last as long as a halogen.
- JKCalhoun 4y ago
  Not exactly "the transformer", but yeah. See the afore-mentioned videos by Big Clive on YouTube to find out how to hack your bulbs to make them last indefinitely (albeit at a reduced light output).
smallerfish 4y ago
You can write the install date (and store name) on the bulb housing with a sharpie when you put it in the socket. It's not a receipt but it at least gives you a shot at getting a return when it fails early.
- OJFord 4y ago
  You could also just write an arbitrary date and the name of the most convenient shop when it fails, so I really don't see what good that does, it's very far from a receipt.
  - fest 4y ago
    At the very least, it gives you an idea which receipt to look for in your box of receipts/warranties. And no, I am not happy about having to think about storing receipts for mundane things like light bulbs either, but it is the only thing that calms down my nerves when yet another bulb with 5 year warranty fails in a year.
    - jwineinger 4y ago
      Or for me, search my google photos for the receipt near that date
  - smallerfish 4y ago
    If you run a store, and a customer comes in and says "I bought this item on $x date; I don't have the receipt but this is how I know", you have two choices: a) you can choose not to trust them b) you can choose to trust them For a $3 item, most retailers would pick #b every time.

Majromax 4y ago

> I have heard that newer LED Bulbs now have some kind of built in obsolescence. This is from someone I know who is an engineer working for the US military. BigClive covers this issue a fair amount on his Youtube teardown videos. It's not exactly built-in obsolescence, so much as being built to cost. The cheapest way to build an LED bulb is to minimize the number of components. Instead of spreading the light emission out over a couple of dozen LEDs, it's cheaper to use a handful of LEDs but really overdrive them with high currents. The result is a bulb that's cheap to make, but in ordinary use the chips and phosphors inside will run at high temperatures and degrade much more quickly. This effect will be even more pronounced with enclosed fixtures (like ceiling lights) that have little to no ventilation. Manufacturers could design their way out of this by increasing the component count (spreading the light generation over more LED chips at lower current), but that's an expense that doesn't translate well to a brand or marketing claim. As it stands, ordinary consumers are unlikely to try to exercise their warranty on a bulb that fails after 1,000 hours rather than a rated 3,000 or so; there's no reason to expect that "this bulb is more expensive but will last a really long time" would make it in the consumer-facing market.

willidiots 4y ago
Glad to see someone referencing BigClive's teardowns and explanations. As for the business rationale, I think it's less about consumer demand and more about the recurring revenue for the light manufacturers. Products like this exist where mandated - see his video on the Dubai LEDs - but aren't made broadly available.
- PoignardAzur 4y ago
  I think GP's explanation is compatible with "Products like this exist where mandated". Even if the producer expects absolutely zero return customers (and therefore no recurring revenue), having the more durable product be more expensive, and durability being hard to advertise, means there's a race to the bottom where the more durable product is competed out of existence. If everybody is forced to make the durable product, the race to the bottom disappears. (Alternatively, having better packaging regulations that make it easier to identify long-lasting products would also help)

Workaccount2 4y ago

They are almost certainly referring to the use of 85°C capacitors. These are much cheaper and die quicker compared to their pricier counterparts. It's not so much "planned obsolescence" as it is "consumers shop on price primarily". And its even harder because there really isn't much benefit to putting specs on your bulbs because 99.9% of consumers won't understand them anyway. What should happen is a mandated "nutrition facts" that gets put on all bulbs so people can familiarize themselves with a standard fact sheet.

PoignardAzur 4y ago
I think the european commission was considering something like this with right-to-repair laws? Having a "durability score" on the package, or something like that.

Jiocus 4y ago

Traditional incandescent bulbs were not immune to planned obsolescence, see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phoebus_cartel https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phoebus_cartel “The cartel lowered operational costs and worked to standardize the life expectancy of light bulbs at 1,000 hours (down from 2,500 hours)..”

anjel 4y ago
Planned obsolescence and fictitious durability scores are a class action lawsuit waiting to happen