7 ms·

Is it that simple though? There are probably other factors that make people in the US more prone to drug addiction (e.g. poverty, lack of opportunities...).

bakuninsbart 4y ago
Lack of healthcare coverage and over-prescription of opioids are both factors as well. People are self-medicating due to not getting the pain medication they need because they lack healthcare. Or they have untreated mental issues. or, if they do have healthcare, they might very well get prescribed super addictive drugs over a long period of time.
- Clubber 4y ago
  >because they lack healthcare. I'm convinced the "crackdown" on pills is what led to where we are today. Many doctors won't prescribe pain medication because they're afraid to lose their license or have a DEA raid. People find what they want in heroin and now fentanyl. Why we keep fighting the drug war this way is beyond me. >if they do have healthcare, they might very well get prescribed super addictive drugs over a long period of time. I think this is also why we are here today.
beepbooptheory 4y ago
Having healthcare accessible in general would at least be a step towards a greater public wealth for individuals. Even a little less poverty has got to do some good.
tough 4y ago
Portugal did this in the 90's and they where poorer than the US for sure. It's a cultural/religious problem if you ask me.
- madaxe_again 4y ago
  Portugal is pretty devoutly Catholic. It’s a cultural problem.
  - wil421 4y ago
    That means nothing as I assume the GP was alluding to Puritan values instead of Catholic ones.
    - AlgorithmicTime 4y ago
      Evangelicals are not Puritans, nor is there a theological ancestry from modern evangelical christianity to Puritanism.
      - TorontoTheGood 4y ago
        Vladimir wants to paint a specific picture, dig?
    - deleted 4y ago
      [deleted]
    - madaxe_again 4y ago
      That’s precisely what I meant. Both have religion in spades - but only one has a toxic culture around it. It probably helps that Portugal was a neighbour to religious lunatics for much of its existence, and even had a few deeply unpopular monarchs who invited the inquisition in. It’s still there in the cultural memory - they take god seriously, but the idea of religious persecution and the involvement of church in state is pretty much anathema to the average Portuguese.
  - mandmandam 4y ago
    [dead]
  - themitigating 4y ago
    I think he meant evangelicals who push "personal responsibility" and other similar values.
- nicoburns 4y ago
  I suspect their welfare state is/was still better than the US's though.
- throwayyy479087 4y ago
  Honestly, I agree. I think that the American experiment is failing. The school shootings, the insane death toll from reckless driving, the drugs - people are desperate and disconnected. Religion and civic groups are basically gone, with no replacement. We're in these weird atomized suburban bubbles. Seems bad.
MavisBacon 4y ago
I’m unsure of the situation in other countries but getting adequate treatment for substance use disorder in the U.S. is terribly difficult (nearly impossible for some) and faith-based 12 step programs such as AA/NA dominate the landscape and effectively replace mental healthcare in many situations. The poor utilize 12-steps because it’s free social support which is great, but for-profits do the same thing (because it’s very cheap to just implement 12 step thinking) and rehab patients are often handed a “big book” (AA/NA’s main text) well before they get a psych evaluation, if they get one at all In short, substance use disorder is treated as a primary condition here, there’s a massive high-profit industry built around it and specifically treating it using faith-based 12 step methodology so a lot of mentally ill people who use drugs never receive proper treatment
- zamnos 4y ago
  Thankfully times are starting to change, with places like http://boulder.care http://boulder.care prescribing Subutex as an easier rung to reach while climbing the ladder on addressing opiate use disorder (OUD).
  - MavisBacon 4y ago
    yeah Bicycle and Ophelia are a few other U.S. suboxone telehealth startups that seem to be doing good work as well (if anyone is interested, it's worth checking each of these out as their coverage varies in terms of which states, last I checked)
- sirsinsalot 4y ago
  Those places, let's not forget, deliver care often with a motive of indoctrination in to religion. It really is taking advantage of people who are vulnerable. Sickening that that's what is on offer in a "developed" nation. That's not even getting to the fact that the leading cause of death in children and teenagers is guns[1] I can't really understand it. [1]: https://eu.statesman.com/story/news/politics/politifact/2022/06/07/fact-check-firearms-leading-cause-death-children/7529783001/ https://eu.statesman.com/story/news/politics/politifact/2022...
red-iron-pine 4y ago
* lack of cheap and easy to access mental health resources * physical health resources are tied to work-provided health insurance, and are often not great * lack of the above two lead to easy fixes, like prescribing opioids aggressively * aggressive anti-drug laws that put more people away than attempting to treat them * no real safety net if any of the above screw up, driving many to poverty, jail, addiction, etc. $30 of pills might be the only joy or relief from their shitty situation, so pop em if you got em.

bakuninsbart 4y ago

Lack of healthcare coverage and over-prescription of opioids are both factors as well. People are self-medicating due to not getting the pain medication they need because they lack healthcare. Or they have untreated mental issues. or, if they do have healthcare, they might very well get prescribed super addictive drugs over a long period of time.

Clubber 4y ago
>because they lack healthcare. I'm convinced the "crackdown" on pills is what led to where we are today. Many doctors won't prescribe pain medication because they're afraid to lose their license or have a DEA raid. People find what they want in heroin and now fentanyl. Why we keep fighting the drug war this way is beyond me. >if they do have healthcare, they might very well get prescribed super addictive drugs over a long period of time. I think this is also why we are here today.

beepbooptheory 4y ago

Having healthcare accessible in general would at least be a step towards a greater public wealth for individuals. Even a little less poverty has got to do some good.

tough 4y ago

Portugal did this in the 90's and they where poorer than the US for sure. It's a cultural/religious problem if you ask me.

madaxe_again 4y ago
Portugal is pretty devoutly Catholic. It’s a cultural problem.
- wil421 4y ago
  That means nothing as I assume the GP was alluding to Puritan values instead of Catholic ones.
  - AlgorithmicTime 4y ago
    Evangelicals are not Puritans, nor is there a theological ancestry from modern evangelical christianity to Puritanism.
    - TorontoTheGood 4y ago
      Vladimir wants to paint a specific picture, dig?
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
  - madaxe_again 4y ago
    That’s precisely what I meant. Both have religion in spades - but only one has a toxic culture around it. It probably helps that Portugal was a neighbour to religious lunatics for much of its existence, and even had a few deeply unpopular monarchs who invited the inquisition in. It’s still there in the cultural memory - they take god seriously, but the idea of religious persecution and the involvement of church in state is pretty much anathema to the average Portuguese.
- mandmandam 4y ago
  [dead]
- themitigating 4y ago
  I think he meant evangelicals who push "personal responsibility" and other similar values.
nicoburns 4y ago
I suspect their welfare state is/was still better than the US's though.
throwayyy479087 4y ago
Honestly, I agree. I think that the American experiment is failing. The school shootings, the insane death toll from reckless driving, the drugs - people are desperate and disconnected. Religion and civic groups are basically gone, with no replacement. We're in these weird atomized suburban bubbles. Seems bad.

MavisBacon 4y ago

I’m unsure of the situation in other countries but getting adequate treatment for substance use disorder in the U.S. is terribly difficult (nearly impossible for some) and faith-based 12 step programs such as AA/NA dominate the landscape and effectively replace mental healthcare in many situations. The poor utilize 12-steps because it’s free social support which is great, but for-profits do the same thing (because it’s very cheap to just implement 12 step thinking) and rehab patients are often handed a “big book” (AA/NA’s main text) well before they get a psych evaluation, if they get one at all In short, substance use disorder is treated as a primary condition here, there’s a massive high-profit industry built around it and specifically treating it using faith-based 12 step methodology so a lot of mentally ill people who use drugs never receive proper treatment

zamnos 4y ago
Thankfully times are starting to change, with places like http://boulder.care http://boulder.care prescribing Subutex as an easier rung to reach while climbing the ladder on addressing opiate use disorder (OUD).
- MavisBacon 4y ago
  yeah Bicycle and Ophelia are a few other U.S. suboxone telehealth startups that seem to be doing good work as well (if anyone is interested, it's worth checking each of these out as their coverage varies in terms of which states, last I checked)
sirsinsalot 4y ago
Those places, let's not forget, deliver care often with a motive of indoctrination in to religion. It really is taking advantage of people who are vulnerable. Sickening that that's what is on offer in a "developed" nation. That's not even getting to the fact that the leading cause of death in children and teenagers is guns[1] I can't really understand it. [1]: https://eu.statesman.com/story/news/politics/politifact/2022/06/07/fact-check-firearms-leading-cause-death-children/7529783001/ https://eu.statesman.com/story/news/politics/politifact/2022...

red-iron-pine 4y ago

* lack of cheap and easy to access mental health resources * physical health resources are tied to work-provided health insurance, and are often not great * lack of the above two lead to easy fixes, like prescribing opioids aggressively * aggressive anti-drug laws that put more people away than attempting to treat them * no real safety net if any of the above screw up, driving many to poverty, jail, addiction, etc. $30 of pills might be the only joy or relief from their shitty situation, so pop em if you got em.