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Germany opposes client-side scanning planned by EU
- acc-qwerty 4y agonice article. great to see them fight surveillance
- burglins 4y agoGermany already spies on its citizens on a larger scale than what EU proposes
- tcfhgj 4y agotell more
- 4rt 4y agoGermany already intercepts and decrypts all private messages?
- telmo 4y agoSource: "trust me bro"
- mejutoco 4y agoMight be unrelated, but there is one that could pass as conspiracy theory, well-sourced. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crypto_AG https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crypto_AG
- thenaturalist 4y agoThis is a 30 year old story? How is this relevant at all?
- mejutoco 4y ago> On 11 February 2020, The Washington Post, ZDF and SRF revealed that Crypto AG was secretly owned by the CIA in a highly classified partnership with West German intelligence It was defunct on 2018. That is not 30 years ago. User telmo wanted a source for spying on citizens. I provided an example of that. It is not exactly what he asked for, but it is not nothing.
- thenaturalist 4y ago> The company was secretly purchased for US $5.75 million and jointly owned by the American Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) and West German Federal Intelligence Service (BND) from 1970 until about 1993, with the CIA continuing as sole owner until about 2018. Literally the second sentence of the link you posted. So no relevance in the context of Germany and BND.
- mejutoco 4y agoFair enough. Germany's BND involvement ended in 1993 it seems. Not so relevant anymore.
- marginalia_nu 4y agoIt's a bit complicated. Germany still has living memory of the DDR and Stasi, and the revelation of their extensive surveillance is very much a culturally formative event in Germany and its sphere of influence.
- aa-jv 4y agoGermany's intelligence services answer to the CIA. They do not answer to the German people or their representatives.
- fsflover 4y agoAny credible references?
- aa-jv 4y agoIts not hard to find the details: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_Intelligence_Service https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_Intelligence_Service https://thewire.in/world/cia-bnd-spying-world-leaders-crypt-ag https://thewire.in/world/cia-bnd-spying-world-leaders-crypt-... https://www.justsecurity.org/13995/spying-friends-troubled-waters-cia-bnd-jefferson-adams/ https://www.justsecurity.org/13995/spying-friends-troubled-w... https://nsarchive2.gwu.edu/NSAEBB/NSAEBB146/Volume%201%20intro.pdf https://nsarchive2.gwu.edu/NSAEBB/NSAEBB146/Volume%201%20int...
- marginalia_nu 4y agoThere's a lot more weird shit, like the Rosenholz files mysteriously ending up with the CIA.
- thenaturalist 4y agoYou are going back in time, to the origins of the BND, post WW2 and into the Cold War. Does it seriously surprise you that Germany as the aggresor that lost the war, became a border country to the Soviet block with a large US military presence was influenced by the CIA or other US intelligence services? It does not surprise me to the least. I don't think your argument is particularly strong though if all you present to make your point are well documented historic facts going back 50-70 years. You're missing a whole lot between those times and today. Last reference to the CIA in your first link is that the German gov. expelled several high ranking CIA officers post the mid 2010s NSA leaks. So where are you deriving the notion from that, today, the CIA controls the BND? Give us facts, posts, experts, discussions, anything. And recent. Not just an opinion.
- amadeuspagel 4y agoArticle was already discussed on HN[1]. I can only again express my hope that germany gains some influence in the EU one day. [1]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34996552 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34996552
- 3836293648 4y agoWhat are you on about? Germany has way too much power in the EU. They might be right this time but that doesn't make it right for them to have the power they do. Smaller countries need more power here, not Germany (or France)
- mardifoufs 4y agoI think it's the first time I've heard someone say that. Who has more influence than Germany? France is not far behind, but more influent than Germany might be a stretch. Unless you meant that they should be "the" leaders of the EU?
- c048 4y agoThe only reason why this problem for those that want to see this happen, is exactly because Germany has so much influence in the EU.
- expertentipp 4y agoAfter experiencing first-hand German copyright cease and desist bullying and being forced to deal with Schufa, I put zero trust in any of "privacy" initiatives coming from them. All their EU-level initiatives are biased by various domestic "privacy" practices ranging from weird to creepy.
- snehk 4y ago> After experiencing first-hand German copyright case and desist bullying So you got caught pirating content? How is that an argument for or against anything or proof of anything?
- rawbot 4y agobut what would Schufa have to do with it?
- expertentipp 4y ago[flagged]
- martijnvds 4y agoTV license is basically just another tax, right? And what do you mean by the second part? As far as I understand private data in Germany is _very_ private, or it would be a violation of the "Datenschutz" (data protection) laws.
- expertentipp 4y agoYou register at Meldebehörde, the letter from Rundfunkbeitrag arrives. Then another one. Increasingly apeshit letters. To every person in the household.
- 9dev 4y agoWell... that's kind of the deal with public broadcast fees in Germany. I also think the way it's collected is pretty weird, but that doesn't make the Rundfunkbeitrag a bad thing in general. You seem to be rambling about a lot of different things here, conflating some of them entirely unrelated to privacy laws: If you get caught torrenting a torrent poisoned by a private law firm, that hasn't got anything to do with German legislation. Schufa, on the other hand, claims to operate under existing DSGVO/GDPR law (even though that may be invalidated eventually); and other than the Rundfunkbeitrag, I'm not aware of any data sharing between the Meldebehörde and "public media", whoever that is.
- tuetuopay 4y ago'twas 'bout time some large country from the EU opposed this crap.
- sn_master 4y agoThe difference between what's on the "client" vs what's on the cloud has been virtually diminished in the last few years with everything doing a cloud backup by default. Active content scanning and reporting to authorities been there for nearly a decade at least with several high profile cases every year since. https://www.businessinsider.com/police-say-a-google-tip-about-child-abuse-led-to-arrest-2014-8 https://www.businessinsider.com/police-say-a-google-tip-abou... https://cbs4indy.com/news/indycrime/muncie-man-arrested-on-child-porn-charges-after-google-submits-report-to-ncmec/ https://cbs4indy.com/news/indycrime/muncie-man-arrested-on-c... https://www.nytimes.com/2022/08/21/technology/google-surveillance-toddler-photo.html https://www.nytimes.com/2022/08/21/technology/google-surveil...
- Malcx 4y agoI can assure you 99% of my data/files never see the cloud other than as encrypted containers for backup. That's good practice for most business is it not?
- sgt 4y agoWhat do you have to hide? This makes us very suspicious. /s
- Malcx 4y agoI know you're /s but it's not even about privacy, it's the cost of mitigation after $cloud_service_x has a data breach and we then have to assign resources to account for _our_ clients data etc.
- therufa 4y agothis is a terrible argument. Would you enjoy going to the toilet when a certain group of people (like your neighbours) could watch you doing your "business"?
- teekert 4y ago-> /s
- luckylion 4y agoThis is basically just someone either misunderstanding how the German government works, or deliberately misleading. A committee of the parliament held a hearing where the invited experts said that it's a bad idea. That's it. Parliament didn't vote on it. The government didn't publish a guideline that they'll oppose EU decisions. Please stop upvoting this stuff. It's content marketing that pretends "experts say" means "Germany opposes".
- jeroenhd 4y agoIt should be noted that Tutanota is a German-based encrypted communications company. I fully believe that they stand behind privacy and other such values, but they're not exactly a neutral party here. If Germany would get the image of being a privacy hellscape, their business could get in trouble.
- thenaturalist 4y agoThe best source on all things digital privacy in Germany (and possibly the EU dealings) is Netzpolitik.org: https://netzpolitik.org/tag/client-side-scanning/ https://netzpolitik.org/tag/client-side-scanning/ They're independent journalists, no product other than info and have been at this for over a decade. CCC is another extremely informed one.
- albinahlback 4y agoGreat to see some opposition on this issue. As a swede, I have been baffled by the silence from Swedish media about this. Mullvad VPN has been bringing up this issue a lot, most notably in the swedish newspaper SvD [1], but also by advertisements in the Stockholm subway, but that's about it. Understandably the ongoing NATO process takes up a lot of headlines, but most of the other headlines are just about murders, unfortunately. [1]: https://www.svd.se/a/76mlxW/jan-jonsson-stoppa-forslaget-om-massovervakning-ieu https://www.svd.se/a/76mlxW/jan-jonsson-stoppa-forslaget-om-...
- sylware 4y agoLike they need to break the encryption to snoop in... come on...
- mmaunder 4y ago"For the safety of our children" has been the rationale behind some of the most horrific crimes humans against humanity.
- elzbardico 4y agoA lot of that mass surveillance stuff deems from an inability or unwillingness of police forces to do human intelligence work. It is much easier to cast a broad net and become a surveillance state than do traditional police leg work. Аnd also, power is addictive, and investigators are not immune to this.
- osigurdson 4y agoWe live in a dangerous and scary world, give me more power and I will take away your fears. Don't take the bait.