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First off, there is a huge difference in being 100% available and not outputting work. They are not exclusive. I WFH with people with babies and kids and they a

First off, there is a huge difference in being 100% available and not outputting work. They are not exclusive. I WFH with people with babies and kids and they absolutely exceed expectations. Second, people in office can be just as unavailable or unproductive as from home. There are a million ways to slack off or be intermittently absent. Third, it's a matter of gender equality too. If the childcare is split 50% then one simply cannot work like someone without kids, or one needs someone else to take care of the kids. If it's not split then 99% it's the women who stay at home while the men build their careers.

lynx23 4y ago
I expected just as much. So, gender "equality" of the spouse of my coworker is reason enough for my coworker to slack off, and me being coerced into keeping my mouth shut? No. People can demand things like that, but I am not playing that sort of game for them. Your first two points are both ireelevant to me, because "can be" doesn't help in my daily work. All that counts, in this subjective report of mine, is my experience. And I tell you, WFH is less productive when it comes to working in a team, period.
- humanrebar 4y ago
  I think underperforming coworkers is a problem regardless of the work situation. If the worker was slacking off while in office, would that be evidence that remote work should be mandated? Or would that be an incident to be corrected by HR and management?
- the_gipsy 4y ago
  > So, gender "equality" of the spouse of my coworker is reason enough for my coworker to slack off Put it the other way around: gender inequality of someone having a stay-at-home-wife is not reason enough for everyone else to be working the same. Having a stay-at-home-wife can't be the only way to equalize to childless workers. > All that counts, in this subjective report of mine, is my experience. My personal experience is the opposite. Office-goers perform worse, are the lesser talent left behind by those that can afford to leave for full WFH jobs, and try to compensate by putting in more office-chair-time and office politics, which just compounds to more problems for those that actually work. There you go.
j45 4y ago
Offices allowed a form of pushibg work into other people. Email can do that too. Daycare is a possibility instead of having one parent takes care of kids. If that’s not an option there are other creative child care options emerging that can work. As for not working like someone without kids.. maybe I could learn to be twice as effective with half the time at work like having to be as a parent. Sometimes we can’t reframe work to work harder than we feel we should have to. The bottom lines is off the life we want is uncommon it might take an uncommon approach and balance. Many childless people are very inefficient with their time too as contrast. Managing interruptions and organizing projects into very small steps to better be able to use tiny pockets of time after proving to be critical and a super power.
Thlom 4y ago
Kids should go to child care so both mother and father are free to work.
- em-bee 4y ago
  if they are old enough maybe. less than 3 years they should be at home with their parents. in austria/germany kindergarten and school traditionally is half day. afternoon childcare is considered special and very expensive, if you can even find a place. finding a space in kindergarten can be a problem too. many parents want to send their children to childcare but they simply can't
  - Thlom 4y ago
    In Norway most kids start kindergarten when they are 1-2 years old, it's not really a problem for most. Probably much more fun than hanging with their mother all day. Some have shorter days the first year(s) depending on parents work schedule etc. Kindergarten is heavily subsidised by the state, so that makes it affordable for everyone.
    - em-bee 4y ago
      Probably much more fun than hanging with their mother all day for a 2 year old? hardly. more research on this topic is needed. i found at least one german report that claims that there are significant risk factors for early daycare that negatively affect the development of children and their relationship to the parents: bad quality daycare, lack of motherly sensitivity, spending more than 20 hours a week in daycare, daycare before 2 years of age. that report also claims that daycare generally affects the socioemotional competence of children, and that 25% of children that received full day daycare by age of 4 show significant problematic behavior even if the daycare is of good quality. the quality of parental care is the strongest factor for the development of social and cognitive development. another article claims that kindergarten does not have a positive effect before age 4. on the other hand another article claims that children that receive some (but it doesn't say how much) external care in the first two years of life are less likely to later have psychological illnesses, and children that start kindergarten only at 4 are twice as likely to get sick. (personally i doubt that, but there it is, research is conflicting, and the jury is still out). but that same article also claims that things have improved over time. before the 90s, early daycare had a negative effect while after the effect became positive. i am not saying that there is only one truth, but as a supporter of the attachment theory of parenting, i tend to side with the idea of keeping kids at home early, and only introducing daycare very gradually and i can also confirm some of this with my own experience.

lynx23 4y ago

I expected just as much. So, gender "equality" of the spouse of my coworker is reason enough for my coworker to slack off, and me being coerced into keeping my mouth shut? No. People can demand things like that, but I am not playing that sort of game for them. Your first two points are both ireelevant to me, because "can be" doesn't help in my daily work. All that counts, in this subjective report of mine, is my experience. And I tell you, WFH is less productive when it comes to working in a team, period.

humanrebar 4y ago
I think underperforming coworkers is a problem regardless of the work situation. If the worker was slacking off while in office, would that be evidence that remote work should be mandated? Or would that be an incident to be corrected by HR and management?
the_gipsy 4y ago
> So, gender "equality" of the spouse of my coworker is reason enough for my coworker to slack off Put it the other way around: gender inequality of someone having a stay-at-home-wife is not reason enough for everyone else to be working the same. Having a stay-at-home-wife can't be the only way to equalize to childless workers. > All that counts, in this subjective report of mine, is my experience. My personal experience is the opposite. Office-goers perform worse, are the lesser talent left behind by those that can afford to leave for full WFH jobs, and try to compensate by putting in more office-chair-time and office politics, which just compounds to more problems for those that actually work. There you go.

j45 4y ago

Offices allowed a form of pushibg work into other people. Email can do that too. Daycare is a possibility instead of having one parent takes care of kids. If that’s not an option there are other creative child care options emerging that can work. As for not working like someone without kids.. maybe I could learn to be twice as effective with half the time at work like having to be as a parent. Sometimes we can’t reframe work to work harder than we feel we should have to. The bottom lines is off the life we want is uncommon it might take an uncommon approach and balance. Many childless people are very inefficient with their time too as contrast. Managing interruptions and organizing projects into very small steps to better be able to use tiny pockets of time after proving to be critical and a super power.

Thlom 4y ago

Kids should go to child care so both mother and father are free to work.

em-bee 4y ago
if they are old enough maybe. less than 3 years they should be at home with their parents. in austria/germany kindergarten and school traditionally is half day. afternoon childcare is considered special and very expensive, if you can even find a place. finding a space in kindergarten can be a problem too. many parents want to send their children to childcare but they simply can't
- Thlom 4y ago
  In Norway most kids start kindergarten when they are 1-2 years old, it's not really a problem for most. Probably much more fun than hanging with their mother all day. Some have shorter days the first year(s) depending on parents work schedule etc. Kindergarten is heavily subsidised by the state, so that makes it affordable for everyone.
  - em-bee 4y ago
    Probably much more fun than hanging with their mother all day for a 2 year old? hardly. more research on this topic is needed. i found at least one german report that claims that there are significant risk factors for early daycare that negatively affect the development of children and their relationship to the parents: bad quality daycare, lack of motherly sensitivity, spending more than 20 hours a week in daycare, daycare before 2 years of age. that report also claims that daycare generally affects the socioemotional competence of children, and that 25% of children that received full day daycare by age of 4 show significant problematic behavior even if the daycare is of good quality. the quality of parental care is the strongest factor for the development of social and cognitive development. another article claims that kindergarten does not have a positive effect before age 4. on the other hand another article claims that children that receive some (but it doesn't say how much) external care in the first two years of life are less likely to later have psychological illnesses, and children that start kindergarten only at 4 are twice as likely to get sick. (personally i doubt that, but there it is, research is conflicting, and the jury is still out). but that same article also claims that things have improved over time. before the 90s, early daycare had a negative effect while after the effect became positive. i am not saying that there is only one truth, but as a supporter of the attachment theory of parenting, i tend to side with the idea of keeping kids at home early, and only introducing daycare very gradually and i can also confirm some of this with my own experience.