5 ms·

This is probably a dumb question but what makes plastics or metals food grade? I ask because I want to know if DIYing kitchen gadgets like this is somehow unsa

This is probably a dumb question but what makes plastics or metals food grade? I ask because I want to know if DIYing kitchen gadgets like this is somehow unsafe or is it possible to build food grade gadgets yourself?

Gigachad 4y ago
Arguably nothing. They all leach chemicals in your food. We just don't know too much about what they do.
- e12e 4y ago
  Eh, you're better off with an iron pot than a lead pot, for example?
hkt 4y ago
There's an overview here that references the (many) standards involved: https://www.bpf.co.uk/packaging/plastic-packaging-safety.aspx https://www.bpf.co.uk/packaging/plastic-packaging-safety.asp... To the best of my knowledge it is less about leaching chemicals out of plastic as safety precautions. There's a bit in there about BPAs (endocrine disruptors) though.
elif 4y ago
It took us decades of use to understand the harms of bpa, which are still disputed by 'industry science's despite the existing research. For instance right now we are largely replacing baking plastics and nonstick coatings with silicon because it is known not to leech.. but now we are finding that silicon breaks down after 200-1000 baking cycles. There isn't any conclusive data to say when it becomes unsafe, if it does at all.. All that to say, if a plastic was designed to melt immediately upon contact with a heating element and bind to the first thing it touches... I'm not using it for tea.
- dragontamer 4y ago
  > It took us decades of use to understand the harms of bpa, which are still disputed by 'industry science's despite the existing research. https://www.fda.gov/food/food-additives-petitions/questions-answers-bisphenol-bpa-use-food-contact-applications https://www.fda.gov/food/food-additives-petitions/questions-... > Yes. Based on FDA's ongoing safety review of scientific evidence, the available information continues to support the safety of BPA for the currently approved uses in food containers and packaging. People are exposed to low levels of BPA because, like many packaging components, very small amounts of BPA may migrate from the food packaging into foods or beverages. Studies pursued by FDA's National Center for Toxicological Research (NCTR) have shown no effects of BPA from low-dose exposure. ------- FDA isn't "industry", they're the government regulators in charge of food safety of the USA. So we swapped from one plastic (BPA) with a century of research to other plastics with no research. They're all going to "leach" into our foods because when food comes in contact with molecules, it will absorb those molecules. If you cook food in an iron pan, the food will have more iron content. If you cook food in a copper pan, the food will have more copper content. Its just how things work. The question of safety is about studying the effects of iron, copper, or... BPA. And as far as I can tell, only low quality alternative-medicine journals seem to ever have anything to say about BPA.
  - elif 4y ago
    Furthermore, data obtained in human and different cell lines show that BPA interferes with thyroid hormones synthesis, secretion, and signaling. Due to its anti-androgenic action, BPA works as an agonist on estrogen receptors and antagonist on androgen receptors[0] BPA exerts endocrine disruptor action due to its weak binding affinity for the estrogen receptors ERα and ERβ. BPA exerts other effects by activating the membrane receptor GPER (GPR30) and/or other receptors such as the estrogen-related receptors (ERRs).[1] In the presence of BPA and DES, the ER-binding region of the HOTAIR promoter was enriched by trimethylation on lysine 4 of histone 3 (H3K4) and by H3K4-specific methyltransferases, which are known to activate transcription73 (Table 2). Moreover, developmental BPA exposure enhances H3K4 trimethylation on genes, which are subsequently more sensitive to regulation by testosterone [2] [0] https://www.mdpi.com/1422-0067/21/16/5761#:~:text=Furthermore%2C%20data%20obtained%20in%20human,on%20androgen%20receptors%20%5B35%5D https://www.mdpi.com/1422-0067/21/16/5761#:~:text=Furthermor.... [1] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6864600/#:~:text=BPA%20exerts%20endocrine%20disruptor%20action,%2Drelated%20receptors%20(ERRs) https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6864600/#:~:tex.... [2] https://www.nature.com/articles/s41574-019-0273-8 https://www.nature.com/articles/s41574-019-0273-8 As for your point about FDA not being "industry" https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2016/09/28/495694559/a-look-at-how-the-revolving-door-spins-from-fda-to-industry https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2016/09/28/4956945... (The same FDA also banned bpa in products for children under 3)
jabroni_salad 4y ago
It's basically, how cleanable is the surface. The surface should be a material that doesn't retain anything after being wiped and ideally there are no seams for bacteria to fester in. This is why stainless is so popular. I think that is actually easy to do. Ceramics are food grade, and people have been making those at home for centuries. For espresso gadgets I think the biggest risk is the heating element.
dfxm12 4y ago
FWIW, "like this" is taking off-the-shelf, already food safe, parts and tweaking the software that controls them. Maybe this isn't 100% DIY or open source if you're buying a boiler from a coffee supply shop, but doing so removes the question about it being food safe.

Gigachad 4y ago

Arguably nothing. They all leach chemicals in your food. We just don't know too much about what they do.

e12e 4y ago
Eh, you're better off with an iron pot than a lead pot, for example?

hkt 4y ago

There's an overview here that references the (many) standards involved: https://www.bpf.co.uk/packaging/plastic-packaging-safety.aspx https://www.bpf.co.uk/packaging/plastic-packaging-safety.asp... To the best of my knowledge it is less about leaching chemicals out of plastic as safety precautions. There's a bit in there about BPAs (endocrine disruptors) though.

elif 4y ago

It took us decades of use to understand the harms of bpa, which are still disputed by 'industry science's despite the existing research. For instance right now we are largely replacing baking plastics and nonstick coatings with silicon because it is known not to leech.. but now we are finding that silicon breaks down after 200-1000 baking cycles. There isn't any conclusive data to say when it becomes unsafe, if it does at all.. All that to say, if a plastic was designed to melt immediately upon contact with a heating element and bind to the first thing it touches... I'm not using it for tea.

dragontamer 4y ago
> It took us decades of use to understand the harms of bpa, which are still disputed by 'industry science's despite the existing research. https://www.fda.gov/food/food-additives-petitions/questions-answers-bisphenol-bpa-use-food-contact-applications https://www.fda.gov/food/food-additives-petitions/questions-... > Yes. Based on FDA's ongoing safety review of scientific evidence, the available information continues to support the safety of BPA for the currently approved uses in food containers and packaging. People are exposed to low levels of BPA because, like many packaging components, very small amounts of BPA may migrate from the food packaging into foods or beverages. Studies pursued by FDA's National Center for Toxicological Research (NCTR) have shown no effects of BPA from low-dose exposure. ------- FDA isn't "industry", they're the government regulators in charge of food safety of the USA. So we swapped from one plastic (BPA) with a century of research to other plastics with no research. They're all going to "leach" into our foods because when food comes in contact with molecules, it will absorb those molecules. If you cook food in an iron pan, the food will have more iron content. If you cook food in a copper pan, the food will have more copper content. Its just how things work. The question of safety is about studying the effects of iron, copper, or... BPA. And as far as I can tell, only low quality alternative-medicine journals seem to ever have anything to say about BPA.
- elif 4y ago
  Furthermore, data obtained in human and different cell lines show that BPA interferes with thyroid hormones synthesis, secretion, and signaling. Due to its anti-androgenic action, BPA works as an agonist on estrogen receptors and antagonist on androgen receptors[0] BPA exerts endocrine disruptor action due to its weak binding affinity for the estrogen receptors ERα and ERβ. BPA exerts other effects by activating the membrane receptor GPER (GPR30) and/or other receptors such as the estrogen-related receptors (ERRs).[1] In the presence of BPA and DES, the ER-binding region of the HOTAIR promoter was enriched by trimethylation on lysine 4 of histone 3 (H3K4) and by H3K4-specific methyltransferases, which are known to activate transcription73 (Table 2). Moreover, developmental BPA exposure enhances H3K4 trimethylation on genes, which are subsequently more sensitive to regulation by testosterone [2] [0] https://www.mdpi.com/1422-0067/21/16/5761#:~:text=Furthermore%2C%20data%20obtained%20in%20human,on%20androgen%20receptors%20%5B35%5D https://www.mdpi.com/1422-0067/21/16/5761#:~:text=Furthermor.... [1] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6864600/#:~:text=BPA%20exerts%20endocrine%20disruptor%20action,%2Drelated%20receptors%20(ERRs) https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6864600/#:~:tex.... [2] https://www.nature.com/articles/s41574-019-0273-8 https://www.nature.com/articles/s41574-019-0273-8 As for your point about FDA not being "industry" https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2016/09/28/495694559/a-look-at-how-the-revolving-door-spins-from-fda-to-industry https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2016/09/28/4956945... (The same FDA also banned bpa in products for children under 3)

jabroni_salad 4y ago

It's basically, how cleanable is the surface. The surface should be a material that doesn't retain anything after being wiped and ideally there are no seams for bacteria to fester in. This is why stainless is so popular. I think that is actually easy to do. Ceramics are food grade, and people have been making those at home for centuries. For espresso gadgets I think the biggest risk is the heating element.

dfxm12 4y ago

FWIW, "like this" is taking off-the-shelf, already food safe, parts and tweaking the software that controls them. Maybe this isn't 100% DIY or open source if you're buying a boiler from a coffee supply shop, but doing so removes the question about it being food safe.