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It’s really well past time to start considering overdose deaths amongst addicts as suicide. Yes, there are accidental overdoses where someone takes too much of

by pigsty 4y ago

It’s really well past time to start considering overdose deaths amongst addicts as suicide. Yes, there are accidental overdoses where someone takes too much of a prescribed drug without realizing it or accidentally combines it with someone that amplifies the effect and results in death. That’s a different matter. Many opiate addicts who die of overdose are essentially (oftentimes even openly) accepting they’ll die due to the drug someday. We treat PTSD-affected soldiers as humans who need assistance in pulling through their difficulties before making an irreversible mistake. But we treat drug addiction as a problem regarding the addiction itself, and not that people with troubled circumstances fall into drug addiction out of despair or other difficulties in life. But I think attitudes regarding this won’t change because the US will instantly shoot ahead of the world in suicide death statistics—in a shame-based society that’s all about saving face like the US, that’s simply not going to happen.

zamnos 4y ago
Okay, we wave a magic wand and now they're suicide-by-fentanyl deaths when that is the case. How does that repositioning change things? There's life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness, but what if there's no happiness to go after? There're no jobs to be had, the Earth is dying, Wall Street is taking all the money. Doing heroin is way easier than fixing capitalism.
- speakfreely 4y ago
  https://noahpinion.substack.com/p/dont-be-a-doomer https://noahpinion.substack.com/p/dont-be-a-doomer
  - zamnos 4y ago
    you could at least have responded with your own words, but you chose not to. Anyway, yes absolutely don't be a doomer. I'm not, despite how I presented above. Life's not even worth living with that attitude. But if you're unable to even sympathize with someone else's plight, what are you even doing? How can you help them out of their pit if you can't see it?
huitzitziltzin 4y ago
> start considering overdose deaths amongst addicts as suicide. What in the world would that accomplish? Does this framing help us reduce these “suicides” ? Or is your proposal a way of helping us think there’s nothing we can do and ignoring it? On the contrary it seems to me like an extremely unhelpful way of framing the problem.
- nine_k 4y ago
  It will frame such deaths in a different way, with a different idea of prevention
heavyset_go 4y ago
"Deaths of despair" accurately groups together suicides, overdoses, deaths due to alcoholism etc. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deaths_of_despair https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deaths_of_despair
tshaddox 4y ago
Do we have good generalized methods for preventing suicide that could be applied to drug overdoses if we started considering them to be suicides? I would have guessed the opposite: that there are specific, targeted methods for treating drug addiction, and that preventing other suicides could be improved by better identifying proximate causes rather than lumping them all together.
- chasd00 4y ago
  The difference is people set out to commit suicide but drug overdoses are accidental. You can’t get to someone before the overdose because you(and they) never know when they’re going to.
  - pigsty 4y ago
    A problem is a lot of heavy addicts fully accept that they’ll die from it. It’s like closing your eyes while driving or playing Russian roulette once a week. There’s no guarantee you’ll die that time, but it’s likely going to happen someday unless someone intervenes or your life changes in a way that you no longer want to take that gamble. Treating opiate addiction as someone on the path to suicide would be very different than framing them as a criminal or hopelessly diseased (the “progressive” model of addiction that took over the criminal model). But clearly there’s a lot of opposition to that idea, even here. Some people hide their addiction well. Some don’t and are surrounded by friends and family who are aware of their struggle but don’t know how to help. It’s in many cases less surprising than people want to think.
maxerickson 4y ago
The US isn't a shame society.
- pigsty 4y ago
  Endless shaming of people on social media as a means to change behavior, as well as people publicly denouncing their affiliation with people who had bad behavior, shows that that claim isn’t true. America has changed.
  - maxerickson 4y ago
    That's not what a shame culture is.
- lostlogin 4y ago
  Or is it the ultimate shame society?
- blackwateragent 4y ago
  > The US isn't a shame society. Wasn't it a big thing to get people to stop fat shaming?
nradov 4y ago
That's just totally wrong. The recent spike in deaths is due to accidental fentanyl poisonings. Mexican drug cartels are manufacturing counterfeit prescription pills and substituting fentanyl for the active ingredients. https://peterattiamd.com/anthonyhipolito/ https://peterattiamd.com/anthonyhipolito/

by pigsty 4y ago

zamnos 4y ago

Okay, we wave a magic wand and now they're suicide-by-fentanyl deaths when that is the case. How does that repositioning change things? There's life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness, but what if there's no happiness to go after? There're no jobs to be had, the Earth is dying, Wall Street is taking all the money. Doing heroin is way easier than fixing capitalism.

speakfreely 4y ago
https://noahpinion.substack.com/p/dont-be-a-doomer https://noahpinion.substack.com/p/dont-be-a-doomer
- zamnos 4y ago
  you could at least have responded with your own words, but you chose not to. Anyway, yes absolutely don't be a doomer. I'm not, despite how I presented above. Life's not even worth living with that attitude. But if you're unable to even sympathize with someone else's plight, what are you even doing? How can you help them out of their pit if you can't see it?

huitzitziltzin 4y ago

> start considering overdose deaths amongst addicts as suicide. What in the world would that accomplish? Does this framing help us reduce these “suicides” ? Or is your proposal a way of helping us think there’s nothing we can do and ignoring it? On the contrary it seems to me like an extremely unhelpful way of framing the problem.

nine_k 4y ago
It will frame such deaths in a different way, with a different idea of prevention

heavyset_go 4y ago

"Deaths of despair" accurately groups together suicides, overdoses, deaths due to alcoholism etc. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deaths_of_despair https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deaths_of_despair

tshaddox 4y ago

Do we have good generalized methods for preventing suicide that could be applied to drug overdoses if we started considering them to be suicides? I would have guessed the opposite: that there are specific, targeted methods for treating drug addiction, and that preventing other suicides could be improved by better identifying proximate causes rather than lumping them all together.

chasd00 4y ago
The difference is people set out to commit suicide but drug overdoses are accidental. You can’t get to someone before the overdose because you(and they) never know when they’re going to.
- pigsty 4y ago
  A problem is a lot of heavy addicts fully accept that they’ll die from it. It’s like closing your eyes while driving or playing Russian roulette once a week. There’s no guarantee you’ll die that time, but it’s likely going to happen someday unless someone intervenes or your life changes in a way that you no longer want to take that gamble. Treating opiate addiction as someone on the path to suicide would be very different than framing them as a criminal or hopelessly diseased (the “progressive” model of addiction that took over the criminal model). But clearly there’s a lot of opposition to that idea, even here. Some people hide their addiction well. Some don’t and are surrounded by friends and family who are aware of their struggle but don’t know how to help. It’s in many cases less surprising than people want to think.

maxerickson 4y ago

The US isn't a shame society.

pigsty 4y ago
Endless shaming of people on social media as a means to change behavior, as well as people publicly denouncing their affiliation with people who had bad behavior, shows that that claim isn’t true. America has changed.
- maxerickson 4y ago
  That's not what a shame culture is.
lostlogin 4y ago
Or is it the ultimate shame society?
blackwateragent 4y ago
> The US isn't a shame society. Wasn't it a big thing to get people to stop fat shaming?

nradov 4y ago

That's just totally wrong. The recent spike in deaths is due to accidental fentanyl poisonings. Mexican drug cartels are manufacturing counterfeit prescription pills and substituting fentanyl for the active ingredients. https://peterattiamd.com/anthonyhipolito/ https://peterattiamd.com/anthonyhipolito/