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It's also quite easy to obtain Buprenorphine in NYC and the problem has only worsened in NYC. I strongly doubt that Buprenorphine was the sole cause of France's

It's also quite easy to obtain Buprenorphine in NYC and the problem has only worsened in NYC. I strongly doubt that Buprenorphine was the sole cause of France's improvements, and given its already-wide availability in NYC I strongly doubt it will solve the problem. Buprenorphine just makes opiate dependence more manageable. It doesn't make you not dependent on opiates and it doesn't make you stop wanting to change how you feel. And given it also doesn't much change how you feel, if you want to change how you feel, you'll stop taking it. Addiction is a predictable outcome of inequality and lack of social safety net in the US. If you don't give people any way to solve their problems they'll settle for feeling better about their problems. We only help people if it's profitable to do so. The war on drugs just gives people more problems. The changes we'd have to make to fix the opiate epidemic are a lot more fundamental than giving people more manageable opiates.

haskellandchill 4y ago
> it doesn't make you stop wanting to change how you feel that's actually one of the things buprenorphine and methadone help with, but as you point out it's easier for that part to work if you have a good life already
dminor 4y ago
> Buprenorphine just makes opiate dependence more manageable. "More manageable" is a very creative way of saying less deadly, I congratulate you on your turn of phrase. In all seriousness though, buprenorphene has a number of benefits aside from being difficult to overdose on. It lasts much longer and lacks the euphoric effects of other opioids. People on buprenorphene tend to get their life back together, and if you're truly concerned about getting someone off opioids that's a much better starting point.
bhawks 4y ago
> Addiction is a predictable outcome of inequality and lack of social safety net in the US. If you don't give people any way to solve their problems they'll settle for feeling better about their problems. Opiate addiction doesn't give a damn about the size of your bank account, your social class, or how loving your family is. The president's own son has struggled with addiction. Heck go back in history and you'll find the roots of the Opium war in China are tied to the emperor's own son dieing from an opium overdose. Opiates destroy people at the neural level. Yes there needs to be medical interventions for addicts. There also needs to be enforcement actions to reduce the supply of the drugs in the first place. Don't just target street dealers either, this crisis started with Perdue and other big pharma players. They shouldn't be able to wash their hands of responsibility simply by writing a big check.
- eurasiantiger 4y ago
  > Opiates destroy people at the neural level. So do coffee, tobacco, antidepressants and antipsychotics.
  - bowsamic 4y ago
    Coffee and tobacco are not neurotoxic
    - b800h 4y ago
      Sorry, that's wrong, at least as far as caffeine is concerned, and certainly as far as adverse behavioural effects ("behavioural toxicity") are concerned in humans. https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1319016420300359#s0065 https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S131901642...
      - bowsamic 4y ago
        Oh, interesting, thanks. I'm not sure why you're downvoted. What about nicotine?
        b800h 4y ago
        No idea on that front. The caffeine one struck a chord because I'm a slow metaboliser, and it can cause me issues with anxiety under the wrong circumstances. It does make me wonder how many cases of anxiety are at least exacerbated by genetic issues with processing caffeine and other stimulants.
      - lll-o-lll 4y ago
        Curse you science! Still, this is just in rats. Rats with their weak rat brains. My superior human brain can easily absorb this caffeine with no ill effects!
      - prottog 4y ago
        That Kang et al. study was 50mg/kg of caffeine administered three times a day. That would be about a hundred cups a day of coffee for my body weight. Don't they say the dose makes the poison?
speakfreely 4y ago
> Addiction is a predictable outcome of inequality and lack of social safety net in the US. I don't know why this keeps getting repeated. The southern neighbor of the US, Mexico, suffers from greater inequality and substantially less social safety net and does not have any comparable opiate situation as the US.

haskellandchill 4y ago

> it doesn't make you stop wanting to change how you feel that's actually one of the things buprenorphine and methadone help with, but as you point out it's easier for that part to work if you have a good life already

dminor 4y ago

> Buprenorphine just makes opiate dependence more manageable. "More manageable" is a very creative way of saying less deadly, I congratulate you on your turn of phrase. In all seriousness though, buprenorphene has a number of benefits aside from being difficult to overdose on. It lasts much longer and lacks the euphoric effects of other opioids. People on buprenorphene tend to get their life back together, and if you're truly concerned about getting someone off opioids that's a much better starting point.

bhawks 4y ago

> Addiction is a predictable outcome of inequality and lack of social safety net in the US. If you don't give people any way to solve their problems they'll settle for feeling better about their problems. Opiate addiction doesn't give a damn about the size of your bank account, your social class, or how loving your family is. The president's own son has struggled with addiction. Heck go back in history and you'll find the roots of the Opium war in China are tied to the emperor's own son dieing from an opium overdose. Opiates destroy people at the neural level. Yes there needs to be medical interventions for addicts. There also needs to be enforcement actions to reduce the supply of the drugs in the first place. Don't just target street dealers either, this crisis started with Perdue and other big pharma players. They shouldn't be able to wash their hands of responsibility simply by writing a big check.

eurasiantiger 4y ago
> Opiates destroy people at the neural level. So do coffee, tobacco, antidepressants and antipsychotics.
- bowsamic 4y ago
  Coffee and tobacco are not neurotoxic
  - b800h 4y ago
    Sorry, that's wrong, at least as far as caffeine is concerned, and certainly as far as adverse behavioural effects ("behavioural toxicity") are concerned in humans. https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1319016420300359#s0065 https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S131901642...
    - bowsamic 4y ago
      Oh, interesting, thanks. I'm not sure why you're downvoted. What about nicotine?
      - b800h 4y ago
        No idea on that front. The caffeine one struck a chord because I'm a slow metaboliser, and it can cause me issues with anxiety under the wrong circumstances. It does make me wonder how many cases of anxiety are at least exacerbated by genetic issues with processing caffeine and other stimulants.
    - lll-o-lll 4y ago
      Curse you science! Still, this is just in rats. Rats with their weak rat brains. My superior human brain can easily absorb this caffeine with no ill effects!
    - prottog 4y ago
      That Kang et al. study was 50mg/kg of caffeine administered three times a day. That would be about a hundred cups a day of coffee for my body weight. Don't they say the dose makes the poison?

speakfreely 4y ago

> Addiction is a predictable outcome of inequality and lack of social safety net in the US. I don't know why this keeps getting repeated. The southern neighbor of the US, Mexico, suffers from greater inequality and substantially less social safety net and does not have any comparable opiate situation as the US.