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Not many things are as fulfilling as doing a job and getting paid for it. Sorry, I don't get fulfillment from a job, nor do I base my personality on it. A job

Not many things are as fulfilling as doing a job and getting paid for it. Sorry, I don't get fulfillment from a job, nor do I base my personality on it. A job is a thing that I have to do to live and do some stuff I like. That's it, nothing more. I'd never do actual work unless I had to, and I'd never work full time if I didn't have to. I'm never going to be motivated to work harder for a fancy car if I can have a reliable, efficient car. I'd like more space, but it needs not be huge or pretty (though, I'd like to cook and make art). Making art is fulfilling. I enjoy making food - work means I eat more convenience foods. I don't need to be paid to help folks, either. I can get a sense of accomplishment by doing things that are difficult, from projects to playing games.

gspencley 4y ago
I DESPISED my first job (I delivered newspapers), but the independence it afforded me, the ability to buy clothes I like, to invest in a computer of my own and to take my girlfriend on dates was extremely fulfilling. Productive work, in general, is fulfilling even if you don't happen to like your current "job." It is not the job itself, it is the act of taking action in order to achieve your values. If you value producing art, that is productive work even if it's not your "job" and even if it doesn't pay the bills. You are achieving some value from that. If you are truly fortunate you can find a way to monetize doing work that you would do even if it didn't pay ... but if your job is "just a means to an end", that end is clearly a value and the job is helping you achieve it. It's the achievement of the value that is rewarding.
- lordnacho 4y ago
  That's a luxury, isn't it? After all you might find that the only jobs you are able to get actually compromise your values.
- WalterBright 4y ago
  My first job was delivering newspapers, too. I didn't despise it, it was easy work, nobody looking over my shoulder, the pay was good enough to put money in my pocket. Fundamentally, people value what they work to achieve. Things gotten without effort are not valued. BTW, having a job does look good on a college application.
  - pnocera 4y ago
    Our teens problem might be they only value the number of likes on their profile. Note that I won't get any credit to what I'm saying : I have less than 10 followers.
    - WalterBright 4y ago
      My HN karma is 64,000 which means absolutely nothing.
anarticle 4y ago
>base my personality on it Your words, not gp. A part-time job as a teen helps you navigate and integrate into society. Part-time helps you get out of your bubble and interact with the public, who may be different to your upbringing. It is immediately clear to me who has had a job as a teen (read: service job), and who has not in my experience. This may be a form of reverse-classism on my part, but learning to sweep a floor and take out the trash for a few months during summer is not going to KILL YOUR DREAMS which seems to be the meme. In fact, you could view it as service to your community! While I was working 10h/w during high school, I was also making DOOM wads and learning BSP algo in my extremely ample free time. Also note, that many skills gained in these jobs can directly translate to irl skills. For me, working at a deli taught me how to make food, be on time, measure crap, clean things, interact with people not in my generation, and more! Maybe you don't get fulfillment, but as a teen with nothing going on it was nice to have some extra money and essentially a playground to learn new skills on someone else's time. It wasn't to live, it was to prime the pump for later in life.
- WalterBright 4y ago
  People also tend to die in the year after they retirement. They lost their purpose.
- adhesive_wombat 4y ago
  > While I was working 10h/w during high school, I was also making DOOM wads and learning BSP algo in my extremely ample free time. I don't recall having what I would call "ample" spare time in high school. I recall being at school 8:30 to 4 every day, then a few hours of homework daily and/or exam prep for the endless exams ("don't fail" they said, "or you'll never go to university and your life is ruined forever!"). I wasn't even that social and rarely spent time at friend's houses, let alone partying or clubbing. In fact, I had so little time I didn't explore "computers" as an industry until I finally did get to university and could actually spend 6 hours a day after lectures fiddling with a laptop and this thing called "Python". In fact probably the one thing that got me going on electronics and computers at university wasn't the lectures and assignments as much as the free time and ability to spend whole days on things, not to mention socialising freely and at length. With the min-maxing of pre-university CVs that it seems you need to do to get into the Right Schools (TM) and then into university, I'm not sure it has gotten better since then. In retrospect I should have told them all to do one and spent high school on what I wanted rather than another essay about WWII and the endless, endless coursework that would suck up any spare time ("I've got an hour, I'd better polish the portfolio even more"), and even if I'd gotten the dreaded lower grades and so not gotten into the same university it would probably have been better over all.
WalterBright 4y ago
> playing games I long ago lost all interest in playing games. The problem with them is nothing is accomplished. Play pinball and get a number on the display. Play Doom and - nothing. Although I invented the Empire game, most of my pleasure in it was developing it.
- paulryanrogers 4y ago
  > Although I invented the Empire game, most of my pleasure in it was developing it. Seems normal enough to me. I found a plateau in playing games, so switched to modding and making them, even as a teen. Everyone has different thresholds and can find joy wherever it suits them.

gspencley 4y ago

I DESPISED my first job (I delivered newspapers), but the independence it afforded me, the ability to buy clothes I like, to invest in a computer of my own and to take my girlfriend on dates was extremely fulfilling. Productive work, in general, is fulfilling even if you don't happen to like your current "job." It is not the job itself, it is the act of taking action in order to achieve your values. If you value producing art, that is productive work even if it's not your "job" and even if it doesn't pay the bills. You are achieving some value from that. If you are truly fortunate you can find a way to monetize doing work that you would do even if it didn't pay ... but if your job is "just a means to an end", that end is clearly a value and the job is helping you achieve it. It's the achievement of the value that is rewarding.

lordnacho 4y ago
That's a luxury, isn't it? After all you might find that the only jobs you are able to get actually compromise your values.
WalterBright 4y ago
My first job was delivering newspapers, too. I didn't despise it, it was easy work, nobody looking over my shoulder, the pay was good enough to put money in my pocket. Fundamentally, people value what they work to achieve. Things gotten without effort are not valued. BTW, having a job does look good on a college application.
- pnocera 4y ago
  Our teens problem might be they only value the number of likes on their profile. Note that I won't get any credit to what I'm saying : I have less than 10 followers.
  - WalterBright 4y ago
    My HN karma is 64,000 which means absolutely nothing.

anarticle 4y ago

>base my personality on it Your words, not gp. A part-time job as a teen helps you navigate and integrate into society. Part-time helps you get out of your bubble and interact with the public, who may be different to your upbringing. It is immediately clear to me who has had a job as a teen (read: service job), and who has not in my experience. This may be a form of reverse-classism on my part, but learning to sweep a floor and take out the trash for a few months during summer is not going to KILL YOUR DREAMS which seems to be the meme. In fact, you could view it as service to your community! While I was working 10h/w during high school, I was also making DOOM wads and learning BSP algo in my extremely ample free time. Also note, that many skills gained in these jobs can directly translate to irl skills. For me, working at a deli taught me how to make food, be on time, measure crap, clean things, interact with people not in my generation, and more! Maybe you don't get fulfillment, but as a teen with nothing going on it was nice to have some extra money and essentially a playground to learn new skills on someone else's time. It wasn't to live, it was to prime the pump for later in life.

WalterBright 4y ago
People also tend to die in the year after they retirement. They lost their purpose.
adhesive_wombat 4y ago
> While I was working 10h/w during high school, I was also making DOOM wads and learning BSP algo in my extremely ample free time. I don't recall having what I would call "ample" spare time in high school. I recall being at school 8:30 to 4 every day, then a few hours of homework daily and/or exam prep for the endless exams ("don't fail" they said, "or you'll never go to university and your life is ruined forever!"). I wasn't even that social and rarely spent time at friend's houses, let alone partying or clubbing. In fact, I had so little time I didn't explore "computers" as an industry until I finally did get to university and could actually spend 6 hours a day after lectures fiddling with a laptop and this thing called "Python". In fact probably the one thing that got me going on electronics and computers at university wasn't the lectures and assignments as much as the free time and ability to spend whole days on things, not to mention socialising freely and at length. With the min-maxing of pre-university CVs that it seems you need to do to get into the Right Schools (TM) and then into university, I'm not sure it has gotten better since then. In retrospect I should have told them all to do one and spent high school on what I wanted rather than another essay about WWII and the endless, endless coursework that would suck up any spare time ("I've got an hour, I'd better polish the portfolio even more"), and even if I'd gotten the dreaded lower grades and so not gotten into the same university it would probably have been better over all.

WalterBright 4y ago

> playing games I long ago lost all interest in playing games. The problem with them is nothing is accomplished. Play pinball and get a number on the display. Play Doom and - nothing. Although I invented the Empire game, most of my pleasure in it was developing it.

paulryanrogers 4y ago
> Although I invented the Empire game, most of my pleasure in it was developing it. Seems normal enough to me. I found a plateau in playing games, so switched to modding and making them, even as a teen. Everyone has different thresholds and can find joy wherever it suits them.