3 ms·

> No, things have converged because lots of people with no taste[1] just ho-hummed along with the zeitgest. You buy what you can afford. Whether that be a shot

> No, things have converged because lots of people with no taste[1] just ho-hummed along with the zeitgest. You buy what you can afford. Whether that be a shotgun shack with second-hand traipings or a McMansion with IKEA furniture. AirBNB's are optimizing for cheap, easy to clean and maintain, but still providing the minimum expected features. If you want variety, go to actual B&Bs. The big mistake the artists in the first part did was to average all input, instead of cluster analyzing the input to discover more than one average type. On average, most people like nature, so nature is what you're going to get. A better test would be to have an art museum with diverse art, and then see which paintings attract the most interest, or even better, which patterns emerge when tracing many individuals throughout the museum. I actually find the paintings fairly diverse, both in their individual content, and when compared to each other. But a person who has a mind to average everything will, of course, find a lot of similarity between them.

groby_b 4y ago
"You buy what you can afford. " The problem is, there is "almost everybody can afford this", and there is "completely bespoke". We have eliminated the middle ground.
- anonymouskimmer 4y ago
  Yeah. People still reupholster old furniture. I think the real problem is that many goods these days are either so cheap it's cheaper to replacement them entirely, or not built to last, so they never get to a rebuild stage.
  - titzer 4y ago
    Indeed, and all the local (and unfortunately global incentives, like GDP) are aligned for production, not wealth preservation and quality of life. The reupholster option is the most efficient wealth preservation option and saves production capacity for making new furniture for other people.
    - nine_k 4y ago
      Since birth rate is below reproduction in most of the world, and population declines (slowly or faster) basically everywhere in the "developed world", even including China, there will be fewer and fewer "other people". We'll have to produce less and less if we do not keep replacing existing stuff with new (hopefully superior) stuff.
      - anonymouskimmer 4y ago
        > new (hopefully superior) stuff. And this is a big deal, too. We've made huge strides in cars and appliances. Outside of specialty needs furniture and carpentry hasn't changed much over the years. > there will be fewer and fewer "other people". This is going to take a long time (when measured over the typical human lifespan), and won't be very noticeable outside of child-oriented institutions. Major changes in industries and other events that prompt large numbers of people to move will still be more noticeable.
        nine_k 4y ago
        The transition of Japan from a fast growing "tiger" to a society with few children, older people dominating, and contracting industry occurred very much within my lifetime, and I'm not an old person yet.
        anonymouskimmer 4y ago
        It looks like the transition hit about 30 years ago, with a big drop from 50 years ago. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Japan#/media/File:Japan_Population_Pyramid.svg https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Japan#/media/F...
  - Arrath 4y ago
    I don't know how many times I watched my dad sit on the armrest of the couch. I try that with my couch and I am rewarded with the sound of particle board splintering.
- chii 4y ago
  > We have eliminated the middle ground. what would be such a middle ground? The bespoke stuff is expensive, since there's literally only 1 customer. Think mega yachts. The 'almost everybody can afford this' is because it's sold to everybody, and thus economies of scale _allows_ it to be affordable. The old 'middle ground', to me, is a pre-industrial idea that locally sourced craftsman and materials can be used to serve just the local region. It no longer exists because it _can_ no longer exist (except as a sort of cottage industry, or artisanal industry which is hugely inefficient and thus barely anyone buys such things).
  - WillPostForFood 4y ago
    In furniture, for example, the old middle ground (20th century) was hundreds of factories, churning out regional furniture that was shipped to cities that had multiple showrooms with reputations based on their curation. This wasn't as expensive as bespoke furniture, but much more than Ikea, or ChinaDirect. In the US North Carolina, Illinois, New York, Michigan, Massachusetts, all had furniture industries. I don't know if that was better, but it was definitely different, much more diverse, less affordable, but higher quality. Clothes worked pretty similarly. e.g. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_Furniture_Company https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_Furniture_Company Within a brief time, the company employed 32 people and manufactured tables, chairs, and a bedroom set. The solid-oak bedroom set sold for nine dollars and included a bed, dresser, and washstand. Shut down in 1993
    - anonymouskimmer 4y ago
      In 1886 the average daily wage for a laborer was about $1.47 ( https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=mdp.39015059385339&view=1up&seq=373 https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=mdp.39015059385339&vi... ). So that bedroom set would be a week's wage. That's a really good price, even today. And it was solid oak (harder to come by these days given the decline in old growth forests). The thing about clothes is they were made to last because of the high price of labor for their making. Once automation really took off following WW2 they became a lot cheaper, and so were treated cheaper. And also weren't repaired nearly as often.

groby_b 4y ago

"You buy what you can afford. " The problem is, there is "almost everybody can afford this", and there is "completely bespoke". We have eliminated the middle ground.

anonymouskimmer 4y ago
Yeah. People still reupholster old furniture. I think the real problem is that many goods these days are either so cheap it's cheaper to replacement them entirely, or not built to last, so they never get to a rebuild stage.
- titzer 4y ago
  Indeed, and all the local (and unfortunately global incentives, like GDP) are aligned for production, not wealth preservation and quality of life. The reupholster option is the most efficient wealth preservation option and saves production capacity for making new furniture for other people.
  - nine_k 4y ago
    Since birth rate is below reproduction in most of the world, and population declines (slowly or faster) basically everywhere in the "developed world", even including China, there will be fewer and fewer "other people". We'll have to produce less and less if we do not keep replacing existing stuff with new (hopefully superior) stuff.
    - anonymouskimmer 4y ago
      > new (hopefully superior) stuff. And this is a big deal, too. We've made huge strides in cars and appliances. Outside of specialty needs furniture and carpentry hasn't changed much over the years. > there will be fewer and fewer "other people". This is going to take a long time (when measured over the typical human lifespan), and won't be very noticeable outside of child-oriented institutions. Major changes in industries and other events that prompt large numbers of people to move will still be more noticeable.
      - nine_k 4y ago
        The transition of Japan from a fast growing "tiger" to a society with few children, older people dominating, and contracting industry occurred very much within my lifetime, and I'm not an old person yet.
        anonymouskimmer 4y ago
        It looks like the transition hit about 30 years ago, with a big drop from 50 years ago. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Japan#/media/File:Japan_Population_Pyramid.svg https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Japan#/media/F...
- Arrath 4y ago
  I don't know how many times I watched my dad sit on the armrest of the couch. I try that with my couch and I am rewarded with the sound of particle board splintering.
chii 4y ago
> We have eliminated the middle ground. what would be such a middle ground? The bespoke stuff is expensive, since there's literally only 1 customer. Think mega yachts. The 'almost everybody can afford this' is because it's sold to everybody, and thus economies of scale _allows_ it to be affordable. The old 'middle ground', to me, is a pre-industrial idea that locally sourced craftsman and materials can be used to serve just the local region. It no longer exists because it _can_ no longer exist (except as a sort of cottage industry, or artisanal industry which is hugely inefficient and thus barely anyone buys such things).
- WillPostForFood 4y ago
  In furniture, for example, the old middle ground (20th century) was hundreds of factories, churning out regional furniture that was shipped to cities that had multiple showrooms with reputations based on their curation. This wasn't as expensive as bespoke furniture, but much more than Ikea, or ChinaDirect. In the US North Carolina, Illinois, New York, Michigan, Massachusetts, all had furniture industries. I don't know if that was better, but it was definitely different, much more diverse, less affordable, but higher quality. Clothes worked pretty similarly. e.g. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_Furniture_Company https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_Furniture_Company Within a brief time, the company employed 32 people and manufactured tables, chairs, and a bedroom set. The solid-oak bedroom set sold for nine dollars and included a bed, dresser, and washstand. Shut down in 1993
  - anonymouskimmer 4y ago
    In 1886 the average daily wage for a laborer was about $1.47 ( https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=mdp.39015059385339&view=1up&seq=373 https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=mdp.39015059385339&vi... ). So that bedroom set would be a week's wage. That's a really good price, even today. And it was solid oak (harder to come by these days given the decline in old growth forests). The thing about clothes is they were made to last because of the high price of labor for their making. Once automation really took off following WW2 they became a lot cheaper, and so were treated cheaper. And also weren't repaired nearly as often.