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No assets released, which is a problem for the following reasons: - Piece of history lost - Makes it harder to boot up anything because not a complete, runnin

by pyalot 15y ago

No assets released, which is a problem for the following reasons: - Piece of history lost - Makes it harder to boot up anything because not a complete, running application. - Derivatives of the art are impossible - Artists will have a hard time starting to tweak things, because there's nothing to tweak. - Coders will despair trying to provide even a basic set of art (because we're usually crap at art) so they could start poking at the code. Sadly, this "here you have the source, off you go" thing seems to be very prevalent, and it always irks the hell out of me. If you don't want to release everything, alright, that's workable. But something, at least some basic art, say the first level or whatever suits you. I don't get it why that should be a bad thing. I also don't get why people seem to think that idea is bad.

nanexcool 15y ago
id Super Pack is 70 USD on Steam... http://store.steampowered.com/sub/440/ http://store.steampowered.com/sub/440/ That'll get you every asset you need. Also it always gets a discount during Steam sales. You can probably get it for 30 bucks if you time it right.
- pyalot 15y ago
  It's not about getting something for cheap. It's about being able to make derivations and incrementally tweak things. It's about that not having any base tweak makes it quite hard for both Artists and Coders. It's about that there's many ways that things could be tweaked that would be fun, but if you're beset by a wish to do that you're gonna spend a year creating art for a total conversion. It's about that culture in games is not code, it's assets as well, and if the assets aren't released, they're lost and never to be derivable of, because of the perpetual copyright crap.
- AndyJPartridge 15y ago
  At a UK price of £38 the amount of software for the money is incredible, just to play it all. Along side all that source as a learning tool it's astounding. Wish I could make use of it :-) Thanks ID!
bittermang 15y ago
While I would like to see it, absolutely, it misses the point a bit in regards to how Carmack is approaching this. He's a tech guy, first and foremost. He's been dedicated to releasing the source to his games, because he's dedicated to sharing the tech that went in to these games. To the point that he went back and made changes to the Doom 3 source[1], at the time a four year old game, to appease the lawyers who were shy to allow them to release it because of software patent concerns. If you're looking for the game, then yes the source is useless to you. If you're looking to learn what went in to the game to make it work, the source is literally invaluable. With art assets, it would be better. But by itself it is such a precious treasure. No one else in the industry is releasing the code to their AAA multi million dollar budget games. There are not enough words to describe the value of the contributions Carmack has dedicated to open source and release. A colleague and close friend of mine directly attributes his early programming days to the fact that he was able to take the Quake 2 source and hack away on it. He's now a programmer in the games industry. You just cannot put a value on that kind of knowledge and examples and source being freely available. It sings to the core tenant of what Free as in Freedom is all about. [1]http://www.tomshardware.com/news/DOOM-source-code-depth-fail-john-carmack-FPS,14079.html http://www.tomshardware.com/news/DOOM-source-code-depth-fail...
- pyalot 15y ago
  It does not miss the point. And I'm not looking for the game, it's not that the only use of assets+source in freedom form would be able to play the game (that is one side-effect). - Curation history is crippled: Games are a piece of cultural history, and if you care about curating that history, then a complete release is important. - Learning/Derivation is crippeled: Releasing works is about being able to learn and derive from them and to release what you've done with it. There are more kinds of people than coders, and there is more to a game than code. You can learn and tweak assets in many meaningful ways as well. - Practice of Culture is crippled: Derivation is also about re-contextualization and remixing. Code can be remixed by programmers, and by programmers only. However sometimes remixes of content are interesting, for instance as a total-conversion of the code to something completely different (webgl for instance) or by re-contextualizing the assets entirely (you could make it props in your next CG movie).
liquid_x 15y ago
In most cases you can use the assets from the shareware/demo releases
- pyalot 15y ago
  However not for legally sound derivation.

by pyalot 15y ago

nanexcool 15y ago

id Super Pack is 70 USD on Steam... http://store.steampowered.com/sub/440/ http://store.steampowered.com/sub/440/ That'll get you every asset you need. Also it always gets a discount during Steam sales. You can probably get it for 30 bucks if you time it right.

pyalot 15y ago
It's not about getting something for cheap. It's about being able to make derivations and incrementally tweak things. It's about that not having any base tweak makes it quite hard for both Artists and Coders. It's about that there's many ways that things could be tweaked that would be fun, but if you're beset by a wish to do that you're gonna spend a year creating art for a total conversion. It's about that culture in games is not code, it's assets as well, and if the assets aren't released, they're lost and never to be derivable of, because of the perpetual copyright crap.
AndyJPartridge 15y ago
At a UK price of £38 the amount of software for the money is incredible, just to play it all. Along side all that source as a learning tool it's astounding. Wish I could make use of it :-) Thanks ID!

bittermang 15y ago

While I would like to see it, absolutely, it misses the point a bit in regards to how Carmack is approaching this. He's a tech guy, first and foremost. He's been dedicated to releasing the source to his games, because he's dedicated to sharing the tech that went in to these games. To the point that he went back and made changes to the Doom 3 source[1], at the time a four year old game, to appease the lawyers who were shy to allow them to release it because of software patent concerns. If you're looking for the game, then yes the source is useless to you. If you're looking to learn what went in to the game to make it work, the source is literally invaluable. With art assets, it would be better. But by itself it is such a precious treasure. No one else in the industry is releasing the code to their AAA multi million dollar budget games. There are not enough words to describe the value of the contributions Carmack has dedicated to open source and release. A colleague and close friend of mine directly attributes his early programming days to the fact that he was able to take the Quake 2 source and hack away on it. He's now a programmer in the games industry. You just cannot put a value on that kind of knowledge and examples and source being freely available. It sings to the core tenant of what Free as in Freedom is all about. [1]http://www.tomshardware.com/news/DOOM-source-code-depth-fail-john-carmack-FPS,14079.html http://www.tomshardware.com/news/DOOM-source-code-depth-fail...

pyalot 15y ago
It does not miss the point. And I'm not looking for the game, it's not that the only use of assets+source in freedom form would be able to play the game (that is one side-effect). - Curation history is crippled: Games are a piece of cultural history, and if you care about curating that history, then a complete release is important. - Learning/Derivation is crippeled: Releasing works is about being able to learn and derive from them and to release what you've done with it. There are more kinds of people than coders, and there is more to a game than code. You can learn and tweak assets in many meaningful ways as well. - Practice of Culture is crippled: Derivation is also about re-contextualization and remixing. Code can be remixed by programmers, and by programmers only. However sometimes remixes of content are interesting, for instance as a total-conversion of the code to something completely different (webgl for instance) or by re-contextualizing the assets entirely (you could make it props in your next CG movie).

liquid_x 15y ago

In most cases you can use the assets from the shareware/demo releases

pyalot 15y ago
However not for legally sound derivation.