5 ms·

I'm always wary of articles like this. The feeling of things becoming mediocre strongly resonates with me, but I am aware that there could be a great many diffe

I'm always wary of articles like this. The feeling of things becoming mediocre strongly resonates with me, but I am aware that there could be a great many different biases at play. When I was younger, entertainment media felt magical. The complexity and depth of experiences I could get from even a second-rate story was immense. I remember staying up late at night to process the last movie I watched, or feeling that rich combination of sadness and inspiration from finishing a long book. I barely consume media nowadays, because every book, movie, TV show, video game and song fails to give me an interesting or meaningful experience. They all feel like grey slop - and after a few minutes, I start to fantasize about vacuuming my apartment, because even that seems like an adventure in comparison. The question is, why do I feel this way? Is it because the modern entertainment industry truly has become stale, or is it because I've lived long enough to see the simple patterns underlying most of our desires and fantasies?

epups 4y ago
Yeah I agree. Part of growing up is recognising patterns everywhere, including art. I don't doubt the process of making everything more average is there, but it's hard to ascertain that when every observer is biased.
hgsgm 4y ago
> is it because I've lived long enough to see the simple patterns underlying most of our desires and fantasies? Yes. And also, ironically because as you get older novelty is less important, so new stuff is boring regardless of whether is differ or same. In every generation kids have loved the new generation of Star Wars, despite us adults knowing that the best one was the one we say when we were kids.
- schrijver 4y ago
  This why I find the geek-o-sphere so tiring dissecting things like why are the new Star Wars movies bad… I have no problem believing that… the old ones might have been better, but they were also formulaic and badly acted and the reason they seemed so profound and amazing at the time was seeing them as a kid! Those spending time watching and hating on kids movies might better seek out something that can actually challenge them.
acuozzo 4y ago
> I barely consume media nowadays, because every book, movie, TV show, video game and song fails to give me an interesting or meaningful experience. I felt this way too until I realized that what I was really experiencing was that my desire to explore outside of my comfort zone had lessened with age. Have you jumped into silent films? Buster Keaton? Have you explored European Atmospheric Cinema? Jean-Luc Godard? Art House? Non-Kurosawa Japanese films? Pre-Bollywood Indian films? In the past, when confronted with questions like that, I would reply with a statement akin to: "Yeah, but that's not what interests me!" And the lesson I needed to learn about myself was contained within those— my own —words.
- Last5Digits 4y ago
  Thank you for this advice. Upon some self-reflection, I think I realize now that I've fallen into this exact trap. The few movies I've recently watched have been the kind of formulaic drivel that I know I'm sick of, and yet I've never felt any desire to watch genres I'm not already familiar with. I seem to get some perverse kind of satisfaction from reinforcing my nihilistic view of the current state of things while doing absolutely nothing to challenge or improve that perception - and all the while I'm longing for some nostalgic idea of the past.
  - squidsoup 4y ago
    > I seem to get some perverse kind of satisfaction from reinforcing my nihilistic view of the current state of things Oh, you're going to love Béla Tarr, maybe start there.
    - vmladenov 4y ago
      It’s a bit fiendish to nudge an unsuspecting victim towards Satantango like that :P
  - didericis 4y ago
    I've examined similar feelings very closely and don't believe it to be a past centric nostalgia. I've found niches that give me that same energy. Most of what I enjoy lies outside of what's recommended to me by most front page/news feed algorithms/is stuff I find as a consequence of deliberate search/spelunking for different novel ideas. I genuinely believe true creativity taps into something beyond our conscious experience, and is a kind of strange combination between premonition and expression of the collective unconscious. I think our systems and machine centric world is delusional about the ability to statistically predict how to deliver what people actually want/need, and those systems are unable to replicate extremely important hidden benefits of human curation. We've created systems that seem to be able to meet our needs "automatically", but they don't actually meet our needs/they're too self referential and too reliant on explicit metrics. Those systems have taken over most of the more natural avenues for discovery and end up over-selecting for things that are the average of existing material, and have little creative authenticity. AI recommended and generated movies/art is the final boss of this trend. That trap is a consequence of the dopaminergic treadmills most of us are stuck on courtesy of recommendation algorithms optimizing purely for attention.
schrijver 4y ago
The latter probably, but you could also say that means your standards have evolved, and it’s less easy to find material that challenges you. I tend to think it’s out there though, so I wouldn’t give up just yet! Our desires might be simple, but art does not need to deal with it in a simple or formulaic way.
VancouverMan 4y ago
[flagged]
- oh_sigh 4y ago
  > The effects of the rise of "political correctness", hypersensitivity, and "cancel culture" over the last three or so decades should be considered, too. There are countless books, movies, and songs from before the rise of these concepts that OP has almost certainly not consumed. Presumably OP wasn't just talking about new media, but rather all media, and therefore is probably a them issue and not a media issue.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
  - VancouverMan 4y ago
    About a month ago, there was discussion here about plans to edit Roald Dahl's works: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34849383 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34849383 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35017120 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35017120 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34925396 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34925396 More recently, there was discussion here about editing Agatha Christie's works: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35315170 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35315170 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35338085 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35338085 Existing works, even those considered to be classics by many readers, and written by authors who passed away decades ago, can be affected by this sort of "sanitization" well after the fact.
    - account42 4y ago
      Pretty ironic that your original comment got flagged to death - a great example of how only approved thoughts are let through the filter. It's really no surprise to me that things are getting blander when nothing is allowed to offend anyone anymore.
- Fauntleroy 4y ago
  This is most certainly not it.
crazygringo 4y ago
> every book, movie, TV show, video game and song fails to give me an interesting or meaningful experience I'm curious, have you tried watching shows like Russian Doll? Andor? The Last of Us? The Leftovers? These are shows that deal with the very deepest of human themes -- growth overcoming trauma, political radicalization, paradoxical aspects of love, and finding meaning in life (respectively, for those four shows). They're some of the most exciting and well-written pieces of art to come around in a long time. And then after each episode, you can easily spend a couple of hours reading story analysis and criticism, listening to podcast analysis and so forth. Because there is a lot to unpack -- the patterns there aren't simple at all. I can't help but wonder if you're not finding things like these that are actually pushing the envelope. (Obviously we're not talking about things like the NBC reboot of Night Court.)
ssnistfajen 4y ago
>Is it because the modern entertainment industry truly has become stale, or is it because I've lived long enough to see the simple patterns underlying most of our desires and fantasies? Most likely the latter. There's so much content being created nowadays thanks to advancements in pretty much everything, making it easier to for anyone to create content. Patterns eventually emerge since creating truly original and unqiue ideas is not compatible with the current rate of content creation.
- guntherhermann 4y ago
  There are 9 superhero/marvel films out this year. I sit on the side of "It's because the modern entertainment industry has become stale."
  - ssnistfajen 4y ago
    When there's so much content being produced, of course some of them will become stale. It is a consequence, not a cause.
harry8 4y ago
Don't overlook diminishing returns when examining this. The first time you try skydiving it is likely to be quite the exhilaration. If you grew up doing with your parents and have jumped hundreds of times it's not going to be the same thing. But if you realised that and "discovered" reading novels for pleasure at your age that might give you an incredible buzz, your first of that kind. No story is going to match a loved family member opening a book at your bedside when you were a child and intoning "Once upon a time..." Yet we chase that feeling forever, which is fine. I know grown adults who still immerse themselves in a childhood artistic experience from a long time ago in a galaxy far, far away. It seems it captured the imagination of vastly fewer who were adults in 1978 and that doesn't mean they were curmudgeonly.

epups 4y ago

Yeah I agree. Part of growing up is recognising patterns everywhere, including art. I don't doubt the process of making everything more average is there, but it's hard to ascertain that when every observer is biased.

hgsgm 4y ago

> is it because I've lived long enough to see the simple patterns underlying most of our desires and fantasies? Yes. And also, ironically because as you get older novelty is less important, so new stuff is boring regardless of whether is differ or same. In every generation kids have loved the new generation of Star Wars, despite us adults knowing that the best one was the one we say when we were kids.

schrijver 4y ago
This why I find the geek-o-sphere so tiring dissecting things like why are the new Star Wars movies bad… I have no problem believing that… the old ones might have been better, but they were also formulaic and badly acted and the reason they seemed so profound and amazing at the time was seeing them as a kid! Those spending time watching and hating on kids movies might better seek out something that can actually challenge them.

acuozzo 4y ago

> I barely consume media nowadays, because every book, movie, TV show, video game and song fails to give me an interesting or meaningful experience. I felt this way too until I realized that what I was really experiencing was that my desire to explore outside of my comfort zone had lessened with age. Have you jumped into silent films? Buster Keaton? Have you explored European Atmospheric Cinema? Jean-Luc Godard? Art House? Non-Kurosawa Japanese films? Pre-Bollywood Indian films? In the past, when confronted with questions like that, I would reply with a statement akin to: "Yeah, but that's not what interests me!" And the lesson I needed to learn about myself was contained within those— my own —words.

Last5Digits 4y ago
Thank you for this advice. Upon some self-reflection, I think I realize now that I've fallen into this exact trap. The few movies I've recently watched have been the kind of formulaic drivel that I know I'm sick of, and yet I've never felt any desire to watch genres I'm not already familiar with. I seem to get some perverse kind of satisfaction from reinforcing my nihilistic view of the current state of things while doing absolutely nothing to challenge or improve that perception - and all the while I'm longing for some nostalgic idea of the past.
- squidsoup 4y ago
  > I seem to get some perverse kind of satisfaction from reinforcing my nihilistic view of the current state of things Oh, you're going to love Béla Tarr, maybe start there.
  - vmladenov 4y ago
    It’s a bit fiendish to nudge an unsuspecting victim towards Satantango like that :P
- didericis 4y ago
  I've examined similar feelings very closely and don't believe it to be a past centric nostalgia. I've found niches that give me that same energy. Most of what I enjoy lies outside of what's recommended to me by most front page/news feed algorithms/is stuff I find as a consequence of deliberate search/spelunking for different novel ideas. I genuinely believe true creativity taps into something beyond our conscious experience, and is a kind of strange combination between premonition and expression of the collective unconscious. I think our systems and machine centric world is delusional about the ability to statistically predict how to deliver what people actually want/need, and those systems are unable to replicate extremely important hidden benefits of human curation. We've created systems that seem to be able to meet our needs "automatically", but they don't actually meet our needs/they're too self referential and too reliant on explicit metrics. Those systems have taken over most of the more natural avenues for discovery and end up over-selecting for things that are the average of existing material, and have little creative authenticity. AI recommended and generated movies/art is the final boss of this trend. That trap is a consequence of the dopaminergic treadmills most of us are stuck on courtesy of recommendation algorithms optimizing purely for attention.

schrijver 4y ago

The latter probably, but you could also say that means your standards have evolved, and it’s less easy to find material that challenges you. I tend to think it’s out there though, so I wouldn’t give up just yet! Our desires might be simple, but art does not need to deal with it in a simple or formulaic way.

VancouverMan 4y ago

[flagged]

oh_sigh 4y ago
> The effects of the rise of "political correctness", hypersensitivity, and "cancel culture" over the last three or so decades should be considered, too. There are countless books, movies, and songs from before the rise of these concepts that OP has almost certainly not consumed. Presumably OP wasn't just talking about new media, but rather all media, and therefore is probably a them issue and not a media issue.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- VancouverMan 4y ago
  About a month ago, there was discussion here about plans to edit Roald Dahl's works: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34849383 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34849383 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35017120 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35017120 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34925396 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34925396 More recently, there was discussion here about editing Agatha Christie's works: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35315170 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35315170 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35338085 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35338085 Existing works, even those considered to be classics by many readers, and written by authors who passed away decades ago, can be affected by this sort of "sanitization" well after the fact.
  - account42 4y ago
    Pretty ironic that your original comment got flagged to death - a great example of how only approved thoughts are let through the filter. It's really no surprise to me that things are getting blander when nothing is allowed to offend anyone anymore.
Fauntleroy 4y ago
This is most certainly not it.

crazygringo 4y ago

> every book, movie, TV show, video game and song fails to give me an interesting or meaningful experience I'm curious, have you tried watching shows like Russian Doll? Andor? The Last of Us? The Leftovers? These are shows that deal with the very deepest of human themes -- growth overcoming trauma, political radicalization, paradoxical aspects of love, and finding meaning in life (respectively, for those four shows). They're some of the most exciting and well-written pieces of art to come around in a long time. And then after each episode, you can easily spend a couple of hours reading story analysis and criticism, listening to podcast analysis and so forth. Because there is a lot to unpack -- the patterns there aren't simple at all. I can't help but wonder if you're not finding things like these that are actually pushing the envelope. (Obviously we're not talking about things like the NBC reboot of Night Court.)

ssnistfajen 4y ago

>Is it because the modern entertainment industry truly has become stale, or is it because I've lived long enough to see the simple patterns underlying most of our desires and fantasies? Most likely the latter. There's so much content being created nowadays thanks to advancements in pretty much everything, making it easier to for anyone to create content. Patterns eventually emerge since creating truly original and unqiue ideas is not compatible with the current rate of content creation.

guntherhermann 4y ago
There are 9 superhero/marvel films out this year. I sit on the side of "It's because the modern entertainment industry has become stale."
- ssnistfajen 4y ago
  When there's so much content being produced, of course some of them will become stale. It is a consequence, not a cause.

harry8 4y ago

Don't overlook diminishing returns when examining this. The first time you try skydiving it is likely to be quite the exhilaration. If you grew up doing with your parents and have jumped hundreds of times it's not going to be the same thing. But if you realised that and "discovered" reading novels for pleasure at your age that might give you an incredible buzz, your first of that kind. No story is going to match a loved family member opening a book at your bedside when you were a child and intoning "Once upon a time..." Yet we chase that feeling forever, which is fine. I know grown adults who still immerse themselves in a childhood artistic experience from a long time ago in a galaxy far, far away. It seems it captured the imagination of vastly fewer who were adults in 1978 and that doesn't mean they were curmudgeonly.