4 ms·

> I similarly disfavor minimum wage laws I am trying to understand this more. Why would a minimum wage law be unfriendly to a specific class of workers? Doesn'

by vivegi 4y ago

> I similarly disfavor minimum wage laws I am trying to understand this more. Why would a minimum wage law be unfriendly to a specific class of workers? Doesn't that just establish a right for the worker and an obligation for the employer to meet. What about pay transparency rules for job postings (that are mandatory in some jurisdictions)? In principle, I feel they help the job seeker although corporations get away with specifying a wide range. At least, it establishes the start of the salary negotiation.

nradov 4y ago
Some workers aren't worth paying minimum wage. They stay unemployed because no employer will pay more than they're worth. If we set the minimum wage at $15 / hour then what do we do with people whose labor is only worth $14 / hour? Transparency rules are fine and don't inhibit employment.
- vivegi 4y ago
  I appreciate the counter viewpoint; Thank you. I had not considered that. > Some workers aren't worth paying minimum wage I don't necessarily agree with the statement above. If a worker is not qualified for the job, don't hire them. Just as we would not hire someone who is say at 2x the compensation budget for a role. I do agree with the issue of what we do as a society with people who don't meet that threshold minimum wage and are unemployed. That number is never going to be zero, but it is not 30-40% either (US context). So, it probably requires targeted policy solutions like unemployment benefits, universal basic income, social safety net etc., Your solution seems to be doing away with the minimum wage to provide them employability at some wage level. That is interesting. I feel that has the unintended consequence of suppressing wages for the larger percentage of employable new workforce (recent grads etc.,)
prottog 4y ago
The other commenter already made the point that not all work has an economic value higher than the legally-mandated floor of wages, which I'll take as axiomatically true and won't explore further. The more interesting follow-on point, however, is that people have to start somewhere, and effects compound over time. Someone fresh out of high school or college is, generally speaking, useless at any given job on day one. Most job training happens on the job, even for people with college degrees. A new employee is a double cost to the employer until they reach proficiency; they have to be paid wages, and they take time away from somebody else who has to train them. And through that path someone learns not only the job-specific skill, but also the general skill of being a productive member of the workforce: discipline, time management, grit, people skills. Over time this learning compounds, and they move up in income. The way that a minimum wage that is too high is unfriendly to the already-underserved is precisely because they miss out on that critical experience. Sure, it might seem exploitative at first glance if a local burger joint hires a kid right out of high school and pays them $5 an hour, and doubly so if the kid is from a disadvantaged class. But the fact is that they will learn from this experience (and crucially, more than just about flipping burgers) and level up and move on. The rich kid gets to skip this step and go right into a job that pays $30 an hour, because they have the unpaid internships and the social connections and everything else that makes them more prepared; that is, they have already leveled up to a degree. Proponents of a higher minimum wage imply a picture where the people getting paid minimum or near-minimum wages are stuck there for life, perhaps for generations. Actual data shows otherwise; only a third of people born to parents in the bottom quintile of incomes remain in that same bottom quintile in their own adulthood. And on the other side, only a third of people born in the top quintile remain there. Under some analyses, the only group that stagnated were the beneficiaries of greatly increased government benefits borne of the Great Society programs in the 60s. Those people were disincentivized from working and therefore never up-skilled. A higher minimum wage has a similar effect: it will necessarily mean fewer young people join the workforce earlier on in their lives, and again, because their experiences compound, will mean that over their lifetimes they will be worse off. I have no strong feelings about salary transparency laws, but am generally in favor.

by vivegi 4y ago

nradov 4y ago

Some workers aren't worth paying minimum wage. They stay unemployed because no employer will pay more than they're worth. If we set the minimum wage at $15 / hour then what do we do with people whose labor is only worth $14 / hour? Transparency rules are fine and don't inhibit employment.

vivegi 4y ago
I appreciate the counter viewpoint; Thank you. I had not considered that. > Some workers aren't worth paying minimum wage I don't necessarily agree with the statement above. If a worker is not qualified for the job, don't hire them. Just as we would not hire someone who is say at 2x the compensation budget for a role. I do agree with the issue of what we do as a society with people who don't meet that threshold minimum wage and are unemployed. That number is never going to be zero, but it is not 30-40% either (US context). So, it probably requires targeted policy solutions like unemployment benefits, universal basic income, social safety net etc., Your solution seems to be doing away with the minimum wage to provide them employability at some wage level. That is interesting. I feel that has the unintended consequence of suppressing wages for the larger percentage of employable new workforce (recent grads etc.,)

prottog 4y ago

The other commenter already made the point that not all work has an economic value higher than the legally-mandated floor of wages, which I'll take as axiomatically true and won't explore further. The more interesting follow-on point, however, is that people have to start somewhere, and effects compound over time. Someone fresh out of high school or college is, generally speaking, useless at any given job on day one. Most job training happens on the job, even for people with college degrees. A new employee is a double cost to the employer until they reach proficiency; they have to be paid wages, and they take time away from somebody else who has to train them. And through that path someone learns not only the job-specific skill, but also the general skill of being a productive member of the workforce: discipline, time management, grit, people skills. Over time this learning compounds, and they move up in income. The way that a minimum wage that is too high is unfriendly to the already-underserved is precisely because they miss out on that critical experience. Sure, it might seem exploitative at first glance if a local burger joint hires a kid right out of high school and pays them $5 an hour, and doubly so if the kid is from a disadvantaged class. But the fact is that they will learn from this experience (and crucially, more than just about flipping burgers) and level up and move on. The rich kid gets to skip this step and go right into a job that pays $30 an hour, because they have the unpaid internships and the social connections and everything else that makes them more prepared; that is, they have already leveled up to a degree. Proponents of a higher minimum wage imply a picture where the people getting paid minimum or near-minimum wages are stuck there for life, perhaps for generations. Actual data shows otherwise; only a third of people born to parents in the bottom quintile of incomes remain in that same bottom quintile in their own adulthood. And on the other side, only a third of people born in the top quintile remain there. Under some analyses, the only group that stagnated were the beneficiaries of greatly increased government benefits borne of the Great Society programs in the 60s. Those people were disincentivized from working and therefore never up-skilled. A higher minimum wage has a similar effect: it will necessarily mean fewer young people join the workforce earlier on in their lives, and again, because their experiences compound, will mean that over their lifetimes they will be worse off. I have no strong feelings about salary transparency laws, but am generally in favor.