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They’re a shady crypto exchange (is there any other kind?) that’s been banned in a tonne of countries around the world for flaunting financial regulations. If t

by yashap 4y ago

They’re a shady crypto exchange (is there any other kind?) that’s been banned in a tonne of countries around the world for flaunting financial regulations. If there’s a major run on Binance, I’d be shocked if depositors get their deposits back.

detrites 4y ago
There have been a few major runs on Binance, measured in billions. So far they've not skipped a beat as a result. Certainly nothing like FTX. No guarantee of future performance, of course...
- polygamous_bat 4y ago
  > So far they've not skipped a beat as a result. Except for all the times they have "halted withdrawals" while Tether printed out a couple billion fun bucks. Don't trust me, look for yourself: https://www.google.com/search?q=binance+halts+withdrawals https://www.google.com/search?q=binance+halts+withdrawals
  - detrites 4y ago
    It's impossible to run a crypto exchange without halting withdrawals periodically, especially when runs are happening. This is due to the security balance between difficult-to-access cold wallets containing the majority of funds, and easy-to-access hot wallets containing the minimum required for expected daily operations. No idea on the coincidence with Tether minting, other than Tether mints often whether directly or indirectly as a result of market conditions, which of course may also be influencing exchange withdrawal dynamics.
codetrotter 4y ago
> is there any other kind? Yes. Kraken. > regular Proof of Reserves audits make it easy for clients to verify the balances they hold are backed by real assets, all with just a few easy clicks in their account. https://www.kraken.com/proof-of-reserves https://www.kraken.com/proof-of-reserves
- senttoschool 4y ago
  Proof of Reserves means nothing without liability. You can have reserves of 100 billion but your liability is 200 billion.
  - codetrotter 4y ago
    > Proof of Reserves means nothing without liability Kraken knows this. > Kraken voluntarily conducted the industry’s first Proof of Reserves audit and set a legitimate standard by accounting for not only our crypto balances, but also our client liabilities under the supervision of an independent auditor. https://blog.kraken.com/post/16592/proof-of-reserves-or-proof-of-nothing-there-is-no-in-between/ https://blog.kraken.com/post/16592/proof-of-reserves-or-proo...
    - senttoschool 4y ago
      So where is Kraken's liabilities audit from a reputable firm? Please no no-name firms.
      - deleted 4y ago
        [deleted]
      - landoftheice 4y ago
        [dead]
      - DannyBee 4y ago
        I'm definitely in the "crypto is silly and a drag on the world" camp, but this is actually not a reasonable request. The big 4 accounting firms have all stated they won't take on more crypto audits. So have like the next 20 :) That is true whether you're trying to do it right or not (IE It is independent of whether you are in the 0.1% of this stuff that is not a scam). It's not reasonable to ask them to do something impossible, and then point out that they can't do it as proof of fraud. That's true even if it's impossible because of worries about fraud :) It's instead reasonable to ask them to do what they can. IE "Prove you aren't fraudulent by getting the big 4 to audit your liabilities" - "The big 4 won't take on more crypto audits due to worry about fraudulent companies and their own reputation" - "See, you are fraudulent!" Does not work as an argument.
nindalf 4y ago
I think they flouted financial regulations, rather than flaunting them.
przeor 4y ago
Uniswap DEX
- bulbosaur123 4y ago
  Good luck using fiat with that.
ulfw 4y ago
Crypto is gambling. Equally barely legal, equally based on nothing but bullshit and greed and hopes for the big win. Equally only 'the bank' wins at the end.
- hnbad 4y ago
  I'm not pro-crypto or anything but how is that different from the stock market in general, or venture capital investment even?
  - tsimionescu 4y ago
    The stock market is highly regulated (no rug pulls, no insider trading, no pump-and-dumps). Stocks are uktimately backed by a company's property, and companies have meaningful ways of appreciating in value that are not purely speculative (especially if you stay away from meme stocks like Tesla or GameStop).
    - dave_sullivan 4y ago
      I dunno, Bitcoin loses 65% of its value and it's a scam, but Netflix does it and it's... not a scam? SVB implodes and investors (but not depositors) lose everything and it's ok. You're nuts if you think there's no insider trading or pump and dumps on the stock market. Seems like a double standard. This all has more to do with maintaining a monopoly on the financial system and certain classes of participant in the US wanting to maintain the power to collect rents. And there really is no counterbalance to their unchecked authority.
      - tsimionescu 4y ago
        Yes, companies can legitimately lose their value over time. Think of Kodak or Nokia - would you say they are producing as much value as they were in the 90s or 00s? Now, some stocks have a real value + speculative value on top. Netflix and many other tech companies are in this state, and the speculative value can go down way more than the real value. But the floor for Netflix stock is waaaaaaay above 0. The floor for BTC and similar is 0, by contrast. As for pump-and-dumps and insider trading etc - sure, they happen, just as thefts and muggings happen. But they happen a lot less then in crypto-land where they are fully legal, and where, even if they weren't legal, no one would be checking for them.
bulbosaur123 4y ago
> They’re a shady crypto exchange (is there any other kind?) Yes. Bitstamp.
apozem 4y ago
Matt Levine, yesterday: > A decent rule of thumb is that all cryptocurrency exchanges are doing crimes, and if you’re lucky your exchange is doing only process crimes. https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2023-03-27/the-cftc-comes-for-binance https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2023-03-27/the-cf...
- ambicapter 4y ago
  pithy, but there's already a saying that says, on average, people commit 3 felonies a day?
  - sjsdaiuasgdia 4y ago
    There's a big difference between the average American incidentally violating felony statutes in the course of every day life, and the cryptocurrency situation where it's never really a question of whether they are intentionally committing crimes. There's questions of which crimes, how big, and whose funds get lost/stolen...but there's always crimes.
    - tim333 4y ago
      A lot of why there are crimes is that crypto is inherently global but there two hundred or so different countries out there making ever changing and vague laws so allowing someone to exchange one token with another one will probably violate some regulation in some country.
      - WastingMyTime89 4y ago
        No need to go that far. Crypto main selling point is anonymity. There is not significant bitcoin exchanges out there which is not processing crime money and I mean actual crime: extortion, drug trafficking, human exploitation and let’s not even talk about fraud. There is no need to whitewash them.
  - quantified 4y ago
    Which is generally not true anyway, same as lots of sayings.
a4isms 4y ago
n.b. They flaunted the fact that they could get away with flouting regulations.
quantified 4y ago
Pedantic: "flouting" not "flaunting", excepting that enough people use "flaunt" enough that it's gained that usage too.
hex4def6 4y ago
Question that I'm sure has been asked a million times, but I've not really seen an answer that satisfies me: What's the fundamental value of Crypto? It's utility? If so, I'm sure there's a calculation you could make that compares the number of "useful" legal transactions (economic activity) vs. the market cap. I'm assuming the numbers are probably ridiculous, however; the equivalent of 1,000s of dollars of "value" per real transaction. My assumption is that the bulk of Crypto's actual value is its ability to hide flows of money from regulators (tax avoidance, drug money, silk road transactions, etc). KYC rules probably have helped in this regard, although I'd be interested in someone in the know having an opinion. Do we have estimates for what % of crypto transactions are not provably legit?

by yashap 4y ago

detrites 4y ago

There have been a few major runs on Binance, measured in billions. So far they've not skipped a beat as a result. Certainly nothing like FTX. No guarantee of future performance, of course...

polygamous_bat 4y ago
> So far they've not skipped a beat as a result. Except for all the times they have "halted withdrawals" while Tether printed out a couple billion fun bucks. Don't trust me, look for yourself: https://www.google.com/search?q=binance+halts+withdrawals https://www.google.com/search?q=binance+halts+withdrawals
- detrites 4y ago
  It's impossible to run a crypto exchange without halting withdrawals periodically, especially when runs are happening. This is due to the security balance between difficult-to-access cold wallets containing the majority of funds, and easy-to-access hot wallets containing the minimum required for expected daily operations. No idea on the coincidence with Tether minting, other than Tether mints often whether directly or indirectly as a result of market conditions, which of course may also be influencing exchange withdrawal dynamics.

codetrotter 4y ago

> is there any other kind? Yes. Kraken. > regular Proof of Reserves audits make it easy for clients to verify the balances they hold are backed by real assets, all with just a few easy clicks in their account. https://www.kraken.com/proof-of-reserves https://www.kraken.com/proof-of-reserves

senttoschool 4y ago
Proof of Reserves means nothing without liability. You can have reserves of 100 billion but your liability is 200 billion.
- codetrotter 4y ago
  > Proof of Reserves means nothing without liability Kraken knows this. > Kraken voluntarily conducted the industry’s first Proof of Reserves audit and set a legitimate standard by accounting for not only our crypto balances, but also our client liabilities under the supervision of an independent auditor. https://blog.kraken.com/post/16592/proof-of-reserves-or-proof-of-nothing-there-is-no-in-between/ https://blog.kraken.com/post/16592/proof-of-reserves-or-proo...
  - senttoschool 4y ago
    So where is Kraken's liabilities audit from a reputable firm? Please no no-name firms.
    - deleted 4y ago
      [deleted]
    - landoftheice 4y ago
      [dead]
    - DannyBee 4y ago
      I'm definitely in the "crypto is silly and a drag on the world" camp, but this is actually not a reasonable request. The big 4 accounting firms have all stated they won't take on more crypto audits. So have like the next 20 :) That is true whether you're trying to do it right or not (IE It is independent of whether you are in the 0.1% of this stuff that is not a scam). It's not reasonable to ask them to do something impossible, and then point out that they can't do it as proof of fraud. That's true even if it's impossible because of worries about fraud :) It's instead reasonable to ask them to do what they can. IE "Prove you aren't fraudulent by getting the big 4 to audit your liabilities" - "The big 4 won't take on more crypto audits due to worry about fraudulent companies and their own reputation" - "See, you are fraudulent!" Does not work as an argument.

nindalf 4y ago

I think they flouted financial regulations, rather than flaunting them.

przeor 4y ago

Uniswap DEX

bulbosaur123 4y ago
Good luck using fiat with that.

ulfw 4y ago

Crypto is gambling. Equally barely legal, equally based on nothing but bullshit and greed and hopes for the big win. Equally only 'the bank' wins at the end.

hnbad 4y ago
I'm not pro-crypto or anything but how is that different from the stock market in general, or venture capital investment even?
- tsimionescu 4y ago
  The stock market is highly regulated (no rug pulls, no insider trading, no pump-and-dumps). Stocks are uktimately backed by a company's property, and companies have meaningful ways of appreciating in value that are not purely speculative (especially if you stay away from meme stocks like Tesla or GameStop).
  - dave_sullivan 4y ago
    I dunno, Bitcoin loses 65% of its value and it's a scam, but Netflix does it and it's... not a scam? SVB implodes and investors (but not depositors) lose everything and it's ok. You're nuts if you think there's no insider trading or pump and dumps on the stock market. Seems like a double standard. This all has more to do with maintaining a monopoly on the financial system and certain classes of participant in the US wanting to maintain the power to collect rents. And there really is no counterbalance to their unchecked authority.
    - tsimionescu 4y ago
      Yes, companies can legitimately lose their value over time. Think of Kodak or Nokia - would you say they are producing as much value as they were in the 90s or 00s? Now, some stocks have a real value + speculative value on top. Netflix and many other tech companies are in this state, and the speculative value can go down way more than the real value. But the floor for Netflix stock is waaaaaaay above 0. The floor for BTC and similar is 0, by contrast. As for pump-and-dumps and insider trading etc - sure, they happen, just as thefts and muggings happen. But they happen a lot less then in crypto-land where they are fully legal, and where, even if they weren't legal, no one would be checking for them.

bulbosaur123 4y ago

> They’re a shady crypto exchange (is there any other kind?) Yes. Bitstamp.

apozem 4y ago

Matt Levine, yesterday: > A decent rule of thumb is that all cryptocurrency exchanges are doing crimes, and if you’re lucky your exchange is doing only process crimes. https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2023-03-27/the-cftc-comes-for-binance https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2023-03-27/the-cf...

ambicapter 4y ago
pithy, but there's already a saying that says, on average, people commit 3 felonies a day?
- sjsdaiuasgdia 4y ago
  There's a big difference between the average American incidentally violating felony statutes in the course of every day life, and the cryptocurrency situation where it's never really a question of whether they are intentionally committing crimes. There's questions of which crimes, how big, and whose funds get lost/stolen...but there's always crimes.
  - tim333 4y ago
    A lot of why there are crimes is that crypto is inherently global but there two hundred or so different countries out there making ever changing and vague laws so allowing someone to exchange one token with another one will probably violate some regulation in some country.
    - WastingMyTime89 4y ago
      No need to go that far. Crypto main selling point is anonymity. There is not significant bitcoin exchanges out there which is not processing crime money and I mean actual crime: extortion, drug trafficking, human exploitation and let’s not even talk about fraud. There is no need to whitewash them.
- quantified 4y ago
  Which is generally not true anyway, same as lots of sayings.

a4isms 4y ago

n.b. They flaunted the fact that they could get away with flouting regulations.

quantified 4y ago

Pedantic: "flouting" not "flaunting", excepting that enough people use "flaunt" enough that it's gained that usage too.

hex4def6 4y ago

Question that I'm sure has been asked a million times, but I've not really seen an answer that satisfies me: What's the fundamental value of Crypto? It's utility? If so, I'm sure there's a calculation you could make that compares the number of "useful" legal transactions (economic activity) vs. the market cap. I'm assuming the numbers are probably ridiculous, however; the equivalent of 1,000s of dollars of "value" per real transaction. My assumption is that the bulk of Crypto's actual value is its ability to hide flows of money from regulators (tax avoidance, drug money, silk road transactions, etc). KYC rules probably have helped in this regard, although I'd be interested in someone in the know having an opinion. Do we have estimates for what % of crypto transactions are not provably legit?