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Binance sees $2B in outflows as troubles compound
- labrador 4y agoI saw a thing where groups are paying cash strapped Russians crypto to destroy their own infrastructure. This could blow back on the West, forcing the shutdown of crypto altogether. If I had any crypto I'd get out now.
- kylebenzle1 4y ago[dead]
- ta988 4y agoAnd where can we find that thing?
- labrador 4y agoI can't remember. I didn't think much of it at the time. The gravity of it sank in later. Probably some "anonymous" channels on Twitter, which is why I didn't take it seriously at first
- electrondood 4y agoThat's almost as funny as hyper-targeting individual voters in swing states with propaganda based on campaign polling data you got directly from the campaign.
- labrador 4y agoSpin up an AI dedicated to each registered voter in a swing state to figure out how to sway their vote. A few hundred or thousand in close races could be all it takes. "Joan B. likes to vote in person, she's likely to vote the wrong way, she's unlikely to vote if she can't drive to the polls, she owns a Tesla, which can be disabled with this software attack on voting day" I'm just blue skying it, but you get the idea. It'll be interesting to see what kind of targeting AI enables.
- pjc50 4y agoI have no doubt this kind of thing will happen. Micro-ai-targeting will make it possible to fake whatever film or images are needed to convince a person, along with a persuasive call from one of their relatives.
- onlyrealcuzzo 4y agoRussia exports about $700M of oil & gas per day. The real liquidity of the crypto market is comically small to meaningfully help Russia circumvent sanctions.
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- btzs 4y agohttps://archive.ph/CJXUH https://archive.ph/CJXUH
- csours 4y agoWhenever I see a headline like this, I ask: Is that a lot? > Overall, Binance holds $63.2 billion in the exchange’s publicly disclosed wallets, Nansen data shows. So, yes I think $2B is significant.
- chrisbolt 4y agoLess than SVB's $42B vs $175B in deposits though. Was it caused by the Signature FDIC announcement? https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35350032 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35350032
- dragontamer 4y agoOccams Razor, for me anyway, is this announcement: https://www.wsj.com/articles/cftc-sues-binance-holdings-in-chicago-federal-court-4280ada3 https://www.wsj.com/articles/cftc-sues-binance-holdings-in-c... Binance Sued by CFTC Over Evading U.S. Rules
- chrisbolt 4y agoAh, missed that one, makes sense. Thanks!
- rvz 4y agoYet $42B in deposits withdrawn a single day out of $175BN isn't significant for SVB? What I am seeing here is $2B in outflows is like a leaking firehose for Binance, when SVB experienced a tsunami of outflows. It would have to take more than that to make Binance go under. Fast. Surely you remember what happened weeks ago when tech bros here were screaming when their favourite VC bank and their pyramid scheme just collapsed? Either way we all know that a crypto exchange will collapse this year. Who knows. [0] [0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34201475 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34201475
- janmo 4y ago$63.2 billion of which: - 30% is hold in USDT (for which there is 0 proof that it is 1-1 backed) - 10% is hold in its own stablecoin BUSD (Not always 1-1 backed source) - 5% is in its own native token BNB - 15% is in small cap (shtcoins) source*: https://protos.com/binances-stablecoin-busd-hasnt-always-been-11-backed-report/ https://protos.com/binances-stablecoin-busd-hasnt-always-bee...
- flutterdev 4y agoIs there a short option?
- mikeweiss 4y agoYou can short Bitcoin. ProShares Short Bitcoin Strategy ETF NYSEARCA: BITI
- rileyphone 4y agoUSD
- sdwr 4y agoThere are perpetual BNB/USDT futures on poloniex, for whatever thats worth.
- headsoup 4y agoBe careful, it's a fake market and you have no idea how easily they might be able to control the price, for a while at least
- lokar 4y agoAlso, massive counterparty risk. If you win big you will likely find you can’t collect.
- kranke155 4y agoAnyone who did their research knew Binance was shady… They didn’t have an HQ, come on, criminal organisations don’t have an HQ. Companies have them. Shady connections to China, BSC was a mega scam, just ridiculous.
- King-Aaron 4y ago> criminal organisations don’t have an HQ Yes, they do
- diceduckmonk 4y agoAnd even if they didn’t, OP’s logic is not self evident.
- noduerme 4y agoI mean, it's self evident if you're the sort of person who wouldn't buy a pair of shoes from a website that didn't list a physical address, much less wire them money.
- Firmwarrior 4y agoIn all fairness, I didn't wire them money so much as shady internet points which I traded for other types of internet points on their site (and promptly removed)
- trompetenaccoun 4y agoIn addition they did have a HQ in China until around 2020, but then had to completely leave that market because of the crackdown under Xi. Same as OKX and other Chinese companies. I still think Binance is shady but that's independent of the move. Lots of companies are moving to fully online work right now, is Shopify shady? https://fortune.com/2022/05/20/shopify-president-office-life-competitive-advantage-build-work-around-mission-not-headquarters/ https://fortune.com/2022/05/20/shopify-president-office-life...
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- ren_engineer 4y ago[flagged]
- paxys 4y agoIt's hilarious that after years of calling for the government and regulatory bodies to stay out of crypto, the house is finally collapsing and it is still somehow the government's fault. People with this mentality need to grow up and accept that there's no global conspiracy targeting them. They just got suckered into a scam.
- skee8383 4y agoi wish the government would have stayed out of it, it probably would have already collapsed by now if they had.
- coolestguy 4y agoCrypto is not collapsing though, all crypto loans are fully collateralised on chain & a bank run is not possible in the same sense
- jazzyjackson 4y agoCrypto collapses when demand for it collapses, not in the sense that it becomes inoperable, but in the sense that anyone who was trying to store value will lose it once the fad abates.
- justrealist 4y agoI mean the prices are public, and are basically unaffected by the daily exchange drama: https://coinmarketcap.com/ https://coinmarketcap.com/ It's fine to have a theory, but it's kind of silly when the theory is so easily disproven by where people are willing to put their money.
- twblalock 4y agoIt's possible if the money isn't actually there anymore, like what happened with FTX.
- ZoF 4y ago[dead]
- twblalock 4y agoHopefully Binance still has all the money customers deposited and didn't lose it or trade it for magic beans like FTX did. If a lot of customers take out their money and Binance goes out of business, that's fine. I mean, it sucks for Binance, but they are kinda shady and the world might be better off without them. If customers find out their deposits don't exist anymore, that's definitely not fine.
- SV_BubbleTime 4y ago> didn't lose it or trade it for magic beans like FTX did. Is anyone taking bets?
- panarky 4y agoIf you have funds in Binance, you've made a bet. If you don't you've made a different bet.
- blantonl 4y agoAre there any derivatives on this I could place my bet on?
- giantrobot 4y agoI'm looking for some bet derivative backed securities. You know they're good because security is in the name!
- readams 4y agoIt's really hard to place trades like this because there's so much counterparty risk and contagion from something like Binance collapsing is likely to make your ability to cash in on your bet difficult.
- lostmsu 4y agoYou should do your own research but there's something called BUSD.
- patricklorio 4y agoTime to see if the emperor has clothes on.
- joshhart 4y agoAnd interestingly, the value of binance coin (BNB-USD) is actually up quite a bit YTD. https://finance.yahoo.com/quote/BNB-USD/ https://finance.yahoo.com/quote/BNB-USD/
- JumpCrisscross 4y agoCould it be an exit mechanism? Swap deposits at Binance to BNB, then export the BNB and sell it away?
- CryptoBanker 4y agoThat doesn't explain who's buying it
- JumpCrisscross 4y ago> doesn't explain who's buying it People with deposits at Binance who want to get them out.
- artemisart 4y agoNo, if you want to get your tokens out you're selling them to get something else than BNB (and BUSD) and this would drive the price down.
- barnabee 4y agoPeople who believe Binance is less likely to die than the market is pricing in, for one. Personally I’m not sure, I think the recent charges may not be a huge deal and I don’t think Binance is default dead. But market sentiment has a life of its own and there’s every possibility there’s some sub-100% level of withdrawals they can’t survive. And while I think Binance is fine, I also wouldn’t be particularly sad to see it go either.
- redox99 4y agoThat makes no sense. First, people have no trouble exiting. Second, why would you swap BNB to exit? Just exit with BTC, ETH, USDT/USDC, etc.
- jasmer 4y agoIt's a shame those allegations don't amount to criminal prosecution. We need to have criminal liability for some of these things, I believe it would change how banking works. It might be a bit harder to get a good interest rate, so be it.
- wmf 4y agoDOJ may be waiting for CZ to stick his head up in a friendly jurisdiction.
- rwmj 4y agoWhile Dubai (where he's allegedly living) doesn't have a formal extradition treaty with the US, they are nevertheless stepping up extraditions for money laundering: https://archive.md/faqoU https://archive.md/faqoU
- davidgerard 4y agoThe CFTC complaint is very weird - it details a ton of serious crimes up to knowing terrorist financing, and then charges them with ... offering derivatives to US hedge funds without having registered? And they got this information by cracking CZ's phone! that complaint reads like it has a shadow twin document, and that shadow twin is a DoJ indictment for CZ.
- seydor 4y ago> it details a ton of serious It alleges but provides very little evidence, including their primary claim that binance "solicited" US users which they don't show at all
- davidgerard 4y agoyou could only say that if you had not read the document, listing all the chat conversations where they're trying to do that precise thing
- uejfiweun 4y agoAfter a million headlines like this I don't really pay attention to them anymore. I'd be very surprised if Binance fell.
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- landoftheice 4y ago[dead]
- specproc 4y agoMeanwhile, in the country of Georgia: New "regional hub" announced this week. https://gbc.ge/en/news/busines-snews/binance-announces-opening-of-regional-hub-in-georgia https://gbc.ge/en/news/busines-snews/binance-announces-openi... Meeting the totally not sketchy Prime Minister in November: https://1tv.ge/lang/en/news/1685013/ https://1tv.ge/lang/en/news/1685013/
- ourmandave 4y agoThe US is recently working on an extradition treaty with Georgia. https://ge.usembassy.gov/u-s-georgia-joint-statement-on-extradition-treaty-negotiations/ https://ge.usembassy.gov/u-s-georgia-joint-statement-on-extr... But I'm sure Zhao has made a few adjustments to his exit strategy after watching SBF and Do Kwon do the perp walk.
- nikcub 4y agoWithdraw issues being reported on reddit: https://old.reddit.com/r/BinanceUS/new/ https://old.reddit.com/r/BinanceUS/new/
- jacquesm 4y agoThat is bigger news than the article's headline.
- simple-thoughts 4y agoLooks like AML compliance, since it’s sporadic and they don’t say the reason. Everyone I know hasn’t had a problem withdrawing.
- mdrzn 4y agoI just withdrew all my funds from Binance and they arrived in 5 minutes. Zero issues so far. I doubt they don't have enough money to cover withdrawals.
- londons_explore 4y agoAn honest exchange holds all their customers assets and doesn't lend them out to make profits on the side. If they're doing that, then there is no incentive for them to hold customers assets. So they should encourage customers to withdraw, and proudly tell customers how much money is outflowing and how no customer has had to wait more than an hour for a withdrawal today...
- vgatherps 4y agoA legit exchange still has incentive for users to keeps funds on the platform as it makes it easier for the customers to keep trading. Not the most aligned incentive, but it's still there.
- alangibson 4y agoI hope the current wave of investigations, prosecutions and regulations will forge cryptocurrencies into something that is actually useful beyond speculation and doing crimes. Once the fight is settled, we may end up with something the general public and traditional banks will trust enough to use.
- paulpauper 4y agoNo fan of crypto, but big exchanges are always getting large inflows and outflows. That is how an exchange works: money enters and exits. Otherwise, it would not be an exchange. The important question is, is this outflow abnormally large? Is it negated by a huge inflow?
- jcfrei 4y agoThis is likely due to the end of the zero-fee trading promotion in the BTC pairs (https://www.binance.com/en/support/announcement/binance-launches-zero-fee-bitcoin-trading-10435147c55d4a40b64fcbf43cb46329 https://www.binance.com/en/support/announcement/binance-laun...). It ended on the 22nd of March.
- Hamuko 4y agoAnd here I thought that the most likely explanation was a Commodity Futures Trading Commission lawsuit.
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- nathias 4y agoso the day of regulatory capture is finally here
- boringg 4y agoHeres the real question in this game of whack a mole. Where did all the money move too?
- theFletch 4y agoThat's what I'm wondering. Is there any idea of how much of say, Bitcoin, is held in cold storage? I saw some estimate a while back that said as high as 70% and that seems high to me for some reason. If true, it definitely speaks volumes about paranoia around exchanges.
- verteu 4y agoI'm surprised BNB is only down 4% since Monday's news: https://www.binance.com/en/trade/BNB_USDC?theme=light&type=spot https://www.binance.com/en/trade/BNB_USDC?theme=light&type=s...
- latchkey 4y agoBNB is the 4th largest marketcap token out there [0] at $49B. The tokenomics around it are pretty sound (it'll eventually be burnt to be a maximum of 100m tokens) [1]. Binance has done a good job of creating a lot of utility around it that extends out beyond just their trading platform. It is also used as gas on the Binance Smart Chain. Owning BNB is as close to owning stock in Binance, as you can get. Binance has been doing KYC for all sorts of politicians, globally, for years now. CZ is not some kid from Stanford living in the Bahamas, who was only printing fake money and pretending to be altruistic. This will end up with a fat settlement, it won't end up with CZ in jail and the market is reflecting that. NFA. [0] https://coinmarketcap.com/ https://coinmarketcap.com/ [1] https://www.binance.com/en/blog/ecosystem/22nd-bnb-burn-8657700843018962092 https://www.binance.com/en/blog/ecosystem/22nd-bnb-burn-8657... Update: I'm getting downvoted, so I guess people are reacting to what I said instead of making a comment about what they see as incorrect. Just some clarity, I'm not some CZ fanboy, nor am I trying to justify Binance. What I'm trying to do is provide a bit of background on why I feel that the price isn't going to zero on this news.
- stephenitis 4y agoMarketcap size of the token doesn't matter at all if the foundations are fraudulent. CZ seems like some dude living to avoid persecution when the house of cards crumbles
- latchkey 4y ago> Marketcap size of the token doesn't matter at all if the foundations are fraudulent. It matters in the context of something like Lehman Brothers, which was $60B. > CZ seems like some dude living to avoid persecution when the house of cards crumbles Persecution by whom? He's Canadian / Chinese, not a US citizen.
- tjmehta 4y agoAnd yet somehow no one has had the bail them out yet. How bout that..
- piyh 4y agoHaving JPOW as a backstop is a feature not a bug.
- bagacrap 4y agoHopefully binance didn't straight up steal customer funds like FTX. It's profitable enough to charge hefty fees (compared to tradfi) and use customer info to feed your quant algorithms or act as a market maker. On the one hand, I've been anticipating regulatory action for quite a while now. Crypto enables ransomware and other crime, although it does make it easier to track criminals. So it perhaps helps small time crooks and harms sophisticated ones. But if you're sophisticated enough you'll just switch back to cash. So I'm not sure why it's still permitted, aside from the legal difficulty of suddenly banning something you've already allowed for so long. Then again, over the last several years long term treasuries have been an even more harmful pump n dump scheme (orchestrated by the Fed) due to their scale.
- adept_js 4y ago[dead]
- adept_js 4y ago[dead]
- emkemp 4y agoThis is good for bitcoin. /s
- Jesse-Millerr 4y ago[dead]