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The way the EV market has been going so far has reminded me of the NoSQL hype of the early 2000s. It suddenly became important to have "web-scale" datastores a

The way the EV market has been going so far has reminded me of the NoSQL hype of the early 2000s. It suddenly became important to have "web-scale" datastores and a lot of new hotness didn't use SQL, so folks started associating NoSQL with scalability, regardless of whether some SQL databases could scale, or some non-SQL databases couldn't. Fast-forward to the present day where I've recently overheard someone say they "want an electric car so it can drive itself". Tesla has made self-driving (for some definition of self-driving") and over-the-air updates and giant tablet entertainment screens synonymous with EVs, to the point where it seems like every major manufacturer is including those features on every new EV they launch. I'd also like to see essentially an anti-Tesla EV - a simple, good car that happens to be electric, without it being a "smartphone on wheels". Make the entertainment system a double-DIN stereo and I'll know I've found the right car :)

peter422 4y ago
A number of existing EVs or plug-in hybrids would easily meet your needs. Toyota RAV4 prime for instance. Tesla is far and away more of a smartphone on wheels than any other car.
- AprilArcus 4y ago
  I like to describe it as an iPad strapped to four cordless drills.
  - smilekzs 4y ago
    That'd be a Rivian; Tesla has two /s
gruez 4y ago
>Fast-forward to the present day where I've recently overheard someone say they "want an electric car so it can drive itself". Tesla has made self-driving (for some definition of self-driving") and over-the-air updates and giant tablet entertainment screens synonymous with EVs There are even people in this very comment section that think that way ;)
irjustin 4y ago
> Tesla has made self-driving (for some definition of self-driving") I'd be okay with this if they weren't f'ing it up. Put Lidar in there and just get it right. Stop w/ this non-sense.
- jandrewrogers 4y ago
  Aside from whatever Tesla is doing, LIDAR has some fundamental technical deficiencies such that it is unlikely to ever be a viable long term solution. I find the arguments against LIDAR compelling with the context of having worked with this data.
  - aydyn 4y ago
    can you be more specific what those deficiencies are?
    - patmcc 4y ago
      LIDAR has some issues in rain and snow, and can't read road markings or signs (or make out colours). And it's pretty expensive currently. A combination of LIDAR and cameras is likely what'll end up working best, they complement each other nicely.
      - gertlex 4y ago
        Just to nitpick/paint a less absolute picture: Having worked at a couple companies using lidar, you can make out stuff like road markings based on relative brightness (especially if retroreflective paint is used), in ideal conditions, but that's of course not everywhere. I agree a combo seems like the way forward.
    - jandrewrogers 4y ago
      The one that few people think about is that use of LIDAR interferes with other LIDAR. LIDAR works mostly because almost no one is using LIDAR. By contrast, passive optical scales infinitely even if it is more difficult and there is an existence proof that it is possible. Automotive companies view LIDAR as a dead-end even though it works well (in some environments) now.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
adgjlsfhk1 4y ago
What you're looking for is basically the Prius Prime. Sure it's not fully electric, but it gets 40 mile electric range (which for a lot of people is enough for the day to day), gets legit 70 mpg at 40-55 mph, and around 50mpg at 70mph. No fancy tech, but it drives.
- viraptor 4y ago
  That's right, the moment Toyota actually jumps on the full EVs, I hope they preserve that direction - those would be amazing cars. There's one fancy thing from Prius I don't think anyone else does though - the heads up display, which looks amazing and I would really like to have. (It's still optional, so you don't lose the usual dashboard)
  - bradknowles 4y ago
    The Toyotas BZ4BX would like to differ. After it recovers from the recent recall, that is. Give them another generation or two, and they might reach the point you're describing. But they ain't there yet.
    - jabl 4y ago
      I'd really like to meet the marketing genius who decided to name the car "BZ4BX". Really rolls off the tongue, that one.
      - bdcravens 4y ago
        It's actually slightly easier, bZ4X. The name does actually have a meaning: bZ(Beyond Zero emissions) 4 (based on Rav4) X (Crossover) That said, I wish they had just called it the Rav4 Electric. I believe mass adoption comes from car companies integrating the electric models into what (non-cutting edge) consumers already trust (Chevy is the only one really embracing this idea) Considering this model was announced before they asked Toyoda to step down for failing in EV adoption, I suspect it was named to not sully the reputation of an established model.
Al-Khwarizmi 4y ago
The Dacia Spring is like that - except for the "good" part, no idea if it's really good or not :)
- peterfarkas 4y ago
  I rented one for a couple days, that car definitely makes sense as it is.
spaniard89277 4y ago
In my case I just want a early 2010s Fiat Panda, or any equivalent. Functional, cheap, little electronic bullshittery.
- wkat4242 4y ago
  Isn't that really what a Nissan leaf is?
- ed_balls 4y ago
  VW id2
edgineer 4y ago
I'd say what you're looking for exists but not in the US. Brits have electric city cars that I'd want to buy, but can't.
JohnFen 4y ago
> a simple, good car that happens to be electric, without it being a "smartphone on wheels". Now, that's an EV I'd consider buying.
rnk 4y ago
You can just turn off or disable the internet connection from the car (take out the circuit breaker for the modem). It turns out the things on even my 8 year old tesla were really useful. I liked streaming music for free, voice recognition, maps with up to date traffic. But the car would still work great without an internet connection. Some people are driven crazy by not enough touch screen buttons, it's never bothered me. But you can just turn off all internet connections and go on your way.
comradesmith 4y ago
What about the Nissan leaf?
achenatx 4y ago
my friend imported an EV from china which is what you are looking for. It is essentially a golf cart. I believe there would be a huge market for a simple (but with safety equipment) golf cart style electric car. My next car will definitely be an electric truck, but I agree, I want simplicity and probably wont get it.
xcrunner529 4y ago
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peter422 4y ago

A number of existing EVs or plug-in hybrids would easily meet your needs. Toyota RAV4 prime for instance. Tesla is far and away more of a smartphone on wheels than any other car.

AprilArcus 4y ago
I like to describe it as an iPad strapped to four cordless drills.
- smilekzs 4y ago
  That'd be a Rivian; Tesla has two /s

gruez 4y ago

>Fast-forward to the present day where I've recently overheard someone say they "want an electric car so it can drive itself". Tesla has made self-driving (for some definition of self-driving") and over-the-air updates and giant tablet entertainment screens synonymous with EVs There are even people in this very comment section that think that way ;)

irjustin 4y ago

> Tesla has made self-driving (for some definition of self-driving") I'd be okay with this if they weren't f'ing it up. Put Lidar in there and just get it right. Stop w/ this non-sense.

jandrewrogers 4y ago
Aside from whatever Tesla is doing, LIDAR has some fundamental technical deficiencies such that it is unlikely to ever be a viable long term solution. I find the arguments against LIDAR compelling with the context of having worked with this data.
- aydyn 4y ago
  can you be more specific what those deficiencies are?
  - patmcc 4y ago
    LIDAR has some issues in rain and snow, and can't read road markings or signs (or make out colours). And it's pretty expensive currently. A combination of LIDAR and cameras is likely what'll end up working best, they complement each other nicely.
    - gertlex 4y ago
      Just to nitpick/paint a less absolute picture: Having worked at a couple companies using lidar, you can make out stuff like road markings based on relative brightness (especially if retroreflective paint is used), in ideal conditions, but that's of course not everywhere. I agree a combo seems like the way forward.
  - jandrewrogers 4y ago
    The one that few people think about is that use of LIDAR interferes with other LIDAR. LIDAR works mostly because almost no one is using LIDAR. By contrast, passive optical scales infinitely even if it is more difficult and there is an existence proof that it is possible. Automotive companies view LIDAR as a dead-end even though it works well (in some environments) now.

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

adgjlsfhk1 4y ago

What you're looking for is basically the Prius Prime. Sure it's not fully electric, but it gets 40 mile electric range (which for a lot of people is enough for the day to day), gets legit 70 mpg at 40-55 mph, and around 50mpg at 70mph. No fancy tech, but it drives.

viraptor 4y ago
That's right, the moment Toyota actually jumps on the full EVs, I hope they preserve that direction - those would be amazing cars. There's one fancy thing from Prius I don't think anyone else does though - the heads up display, which looks amazing and I would really like to have. (It's still optional, so you don't lose the usual dashboard)
- bradknowles 4y ago
  The Toyotas BZ4BX would like to differ. After it recovers from the recent recall, that is. Give them another generation or two, and they might reach the point you're describing. But they ain't there yet.
  - jabl 4y ago
    I'd really like to meet the marketing genius who decided to name the car "BZ4BX". Really rolls off the tongue, that one.
    - bdcravens 4y ago
      It's actually slightly easier, bZ4X. The name does actually have a meaning: bZ(Beyond Zero emissions) 4 (based on Rav4) X (Crossover) That said, I wish they had just called it the Rav4 Electric. I believe mass adoption comes from car companies integrating the electric models into what (non-cutting edge) consumers already trust (Chevy is the only one really embracing this idea) Considering this model was announced before they asked Toyoda to step down for failing in EV adoption, I suspect it was named to not sully the reputation of an established model.

Al-Khwarizmi 4y ago

The Dacia Spring is like that - except for the "good" part, no idea if it's really good or not :)

peterfarkas 4y ago
I rented one for a couple days, that car definitely makes sense as it is.

spaniard89277 4y ago

In my case I just want a early 2010s Fiat Panda, or any equivalent. Functional, cheap, little electronic bullshittery.

wkat4242 4y ago
Isn't that really what a Nissan leaf is?
ed_balls 4y ago
VW id2

edgineer 4y ago

I'd say what you're looking for exists but not in the US. Brits have electric city cars that I'd want to buy, but can't.

JohnFen 4y ago

> a simple, good car that happens to be electric, without it being a "smartphone on wheels". Now, that's an EV I'd consider buying.

rnk 4y ago

You can just turn off or disable the internet connection from the car (take out the circuit breaker for the modem). It turns out the things on even my 8 year old tesla were really useful. I liked streaming music for free, voice recognition, maps with up to date traffic. But the car would still work great without an internet connection. Some people are driven crazy by not enough touch screen buttons, it's never bothered me. But you can just turn off all internet connections and go on your way.

comradesmith 4y ago

What about the Nissan leaf?

achenatx 4y ago

my friend imported an EV from china which is what you are looking for. It is essentially a golf cart. I believe there would be a huge market for a simple (but with safety equipment) golf cart style electric car. My next car will definitely be an electric truck, but I agree, I want simplicity and probably wont get it.

xcrunner529 4y ago

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