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> People are buying EVs because they're better This is only true for people with a certain amount of spare money to pay the extra, since EVs are more expensive

• ericd 4y ago
  The prices have changed a lot since November 2022; Tesla became eligible for the $7,500 Federal tax credit again, and they dropped their prices significantly to qualify. Right now a base Model 3 is around $36k after tax credit.
  • logifail 4y ago
    > Right now a base Model 3 is around $36k after tax credit Not wishing to be obtuse, but is that good? There are a lot of people who would never dream of paying that much for a new car.
    • seanmcdirmid 4y ago
      The average new car price is $49k. I can't find info on the median, and I'm sure that is before tax rebates.
      • logifail 4y ago
        > The average new car price is $49k Right, meaning there are a lot of car buyers who pay less than that. In many cases a lot less. I'm one of them(!) The last time I bought a new car I paid $11k, although that was around five years ago. Since then, over many tens of thousands of miles, that vehicle has transported our family from A to B and back again. I'd love to own an EV, but I can't afford to pay a significant premium for one.
        • toomuchtodo 4y ago
          Used car market is for people price sensitive. EVs will trickle down to them eventually as new car buyers upgrade.
        • akiselev 4y ago
          If you don't need the extended range of a brand new battery, I think you'll be able to pick up a used one for cheap soon enough. My parents bought a Tesla a few months ago because their Leaf's battery life fell below the point where they could get to work and back reliably on a single charge and they spent months waiting for a battery replacement (they're still waiting). If their supply problems continue, people are going to start dumping more and more used electrical cars and going back to gas or to companies that can actually keep up battery supply like Tesla.
          • logifail 4y ago
            > If you don't need the extended range of a brand new battery [..] My OH drove the best part of 200 miles, round trip, on the spur of the moment to pick me up at an airport late in the evening after my flight was badly delayed, she got to the airport just as I came through baggage reclaim so was at the airport less than 10 mins. That was just last week. By sheer coincidence I drove to pick her up at the same airport the week before, although at least I knew that journey was coming ahead of time. What do used EV owners with smaller and/or degraded batteries say to each other in that scenario? "Sorry, I can't come and pick you up, the car's not charged?" A car that can't manage to drive to a local airport and back in one go is exhibiting a fairly critical flaw, at least for people like us.
            • ericd 4y ago
              You can go to a supercharger after the first leg and spend 10-15 minutes there. It's really not the issue you'd think it is reading all the concern from people online. And Tesla batteries degrade much slower than you'd think based on experience with consumer electronics.
              • 4y ago
    • ericd 4y ago
      It is what it is, I'm just pointing out the $65k quoted by parent as of November is not close to the price of entry for a good EV currently.
    • deleted 4y ago
      [deleted]
    • sidewndr46 4y ago
      If I add up all the vehicles I've purchased in my lifetime, still not 36k.
• jjoonathan 4y ago
  EVs are more expensive for now. Manufacturers are keenly aware that most demand is at lower price points. It's a race to get there.
• elihu 4y ago
  The Chevy Bolt is pretty cheap, especially with a rebate. There are a lot of people who just can't afford a new car. That's a legitimate concern. EVs are gradually working their way into the used market. EV conversion is another option that's currently only for moderately well-off people with a lot of free time, but with the right kits it could be a more routine thing.
  • logifail 4y ago
    > The Chevy Bolt is pretty cheap $26,500? [0] How much is a new Mitsubishi Mirage (for instance) where you are? > There are a lot of people who just can't afford a new car I'm talking about people who can afford a new ICE vehicle, but won't/can't pay the extra to get an EV. [0] https://www.chevrolet.com/electric/bolt-ev https://www.chevrolet.com/electric/bolt-ev
    • estebank 4y ago
      > The average transaction price (ATP) of a new vehicle in the U.S. hit a record high in December at $49,507, an increase of 1.9% ($927) from November and up 4.9% ($2,297) from year-earlier levels. New-vehicle inventory levels are increasing from historic lows earlier in 2022, but prices remain elevated, according to data released today by Kelley Blue Book, a Cox Automotive company. https://www.coxautoinc.com/market-insights/kbb-atp-december-2022/ https://www.coxautoinc.com/market-insights/kbb-atp-december-...
    • Spooky23 4y ago
      It’s the classic capital be operational cost comparison. Lower fuel cost and minimal maintenance makes EVs cheaper in most cases.
      • 2muchcoffeeman 4y ago
        But the extra upfront cost makes it unaffordable or presents an opportunity cost.
      • BeetleB 4y ago
• NotYourLawyer 4y ago
  I find it more shocking that the average gas car cost that much. Yeesh.
  • thallium205 4y ago
    Toss in EV tax rebates, compare it to the average gasoline SUVs price, and they are the same price. I'm not kidding.
    • deleted 4y ago
      [deleted]
• stickfigure 4y ago
  I bought a used 2013 Fiat 500e last year for $8k. It's perfect for my wife's commute (50mi roundtrip; comes home with 20% remaining charge). We plug it into household 120v overnight. It drives like a zippy little gocart. It wouldn't be ideal for a one-car family, but as a commuter it's better and cheaper.
  • fbdab103 4y ago
    My own insecurities, but 20% remaining daily would definitely have me on a bit of an edge. Is it a smoothly linear battery consumption, or is it possible to drop from 16% to 4%, seemingly at random? Using an overly simplistic 80% used for 50 files would imply .63 miles per battery percentage. Meaning she only has slack of 12.5 miles to empty the tank. Which is less concerning when you can rely on ubiquitous gas stations.
    • brewdad 4y ago
      You never let your ICE car get below a quarter tank? This is even easier to deal with than the ICE scenario where you find yourself low and still have to get yourself to the gas station. OP finds themselves low as they pull into their driveway/filling station.
      • fbdab103 4y ago
        A quarter tank of fuel leaves me with >80 miles of range remaining. That enables nearly any impromptu trip I am likely to engage, along with the ability to refill basically anywhere. Rolling the dice with ~13 miles available on a daily basis would make me uneasy. What if there is an accident that re-routes traffic? Some kind of hazard that has me stuck for hours? What if I want to go to the mall after work? I want EVs to work, and my next car is quite likely to be one, but limited locations for quick re-fueling are a real concern of mine.
        • underdeserver 4y ago
          We're talking about: 1) A 10-year-old car 2) From a time when batteries were much worse than today 3) With low original range 4) Not including the extra 10-20 miles or so that most car makers add to the "0" point, similar to how a gas tank isn't quite empty when the display says it is. I'm guessing OP bought it for relatively cheap and is saving $20-$30 a day running it like that. That's worth the taxi / tow / calling your spouse, when you get stuck twice a year.
• chaostheory 4y ago
  EVs cost less for maintenance in both time and money.
• p1necone 4y ago
  I've never bought a brand new car (EV or otherwise), and probably never will. The value proposition just isn't there when cars lose double digit percentages of their value the second they're driven off the lot, and drop down to like half their initial cost or more after only a few years.
  • loeg 4y ago
    The depreciation curve is steeper in some manufacturers than others. It's overstating the case to say, e.g., that Toyotas lose half their value in only a few years. I also have only ever bought used vehicles but my most recent Subaru was ~6 years old and still more than 50% of MSRP of the current, newer model year.
• bloaf 4y ago
  > People are buying cars because they're better than horses This is only true for people with a certain amount of spare money to pay the extra, since cars are more expensive to purchase. "According to Kelley Blue Book, gas cars averaged $48,681 that month" whereas horses typically cost between $1500-$10,000 https://www.joyfulequestrian.com/how-much-does-it-cost-to-buy-a-horse/ https://www.joyfulequestrian.com/how-much-does-it-cost-to-bu... AAA reports that average annual operating costs for a car are ~$8500/year https://www.aaa.com/autorepair/articles/what-does-it-cost-to-own-and-operate-a-car https://www.aaa.com/autorepair/articles/what-does-it-cost-to... Whereas the average annual cost of a horse is under $4000/year https://cowgirlmagazine.com/cost-owning-horse/ https://cowgirlmagazine.com/cost-owning-horse/
  • brewdad 4y ago
    My neighborhood isn’t zoned for horses so I’m going to need a horseless carriage to get me to the horse barn.
    • bloaf 4y ago
      Have you considered (checks notes) an electric scooter?
• NovaDudely 4y ago
  I good example of how having less money makes things more expensive.
• pwinnski 4y ago
  I bought my first EV by trading in my Prius and writing a $27 check. Had I paid cash, it would be have been about $7k (for a 2017 Fiat 500e in 2020). I bought my second EV for $39,995 out the door, and then got a $7500 tax credit, reducing my net cost to $32,495. That one is a 2023 Chevy Bolt EUV. I'm not sure which is the best car I've ever owned, but they're in positions 1 and 2 in some order.