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In geopolitical terms, the US has spent the last decade antagonising China for internal political gain. Resulting in the present situation where they've chosen

by Jochim 4y ago

In geopolitical terms, the US has spent the last decade antagonising China for internal political gain. Resulting in the present situation where they've chosen not to align with the west on Russian sanctions. Not to say that China is entirely free from blame either. As a European, I'm more likely to be extradited and tortured by the US than the CCP. I'm sure much of the world hasn't forgotten their penchant for assassinations, support for dictators, and destabilisation of democratically elected governments. Let's not forget the decades long mess that was the Iraq war.

mikrotikker 4y ago
Chinese expats are frequently "extradited" to face torture via the Chinese police stations set up in foreign countries around the would.
- seanmcdirmid 4y ago
  Not just Chinese expats, you could totally switch your citizenship to Swedish and still get abducted by the Chinese government in Thailand.
  - Jochim 4y ago
    Glass houses: > The administration of President George W. Bush abducted hundreds of "illegal combatants" for U.S. detention, and transported detainees to U.S.-controlled sites as part of an extensive interrogation program that included torture. > Extraordinary rendition continued under the Obama administration, with targets being interrogated and subsequently taken to the U.S. for trial. > A June 2006 report estimated that one hundred people had been kidnapped by the CIA on European Union soil [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extraordinary_rendition https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extraordinary_rendition
    - mikrotikker 4y ago
      Yes that is also bad. You want a cookie?
    - deleted 4y ago
      [deleted]
- Jochim 4y ago
  Has there been some kind of collective amnesia regarding Guantanamo bay or the torture that took place in Iraq and Afghanistan? Did America's campaign of drone strikes simply not occur? In less recent memory we might recall the US "protecting democracy" by providing direct financial, training, operational training, and the occasional assassination to military coups/dictators in Latin America[0]. Allies of the US certainly have it a lot easier but it doesn't mean their leaders communications won't be monitored [1]. China's behaviour is certainly objectionable but as someone that lives in neither country the US has a much more worrying history of foreign interference. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Condor https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Condor [1] https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-24690055 https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-24690055
  - mikrotikker 4y ago
    Just because one thing is bad doesnt mean another thing is suddenly rendered not bad. Come on.
thrway2349 4y ago
Given China's cozying up to Russia, I'd think harder about which countries are really on your side when push comes to shove. As a European you're effectively only protected from Russian aggression (or re-invasion, depending on which country you're in) because of NATO, which is substantially led by the US. Germany, Poland, the Baltic states, etc. would be completely up shit creek right now if it wasn't for US military involvement in NATO and arms in Ukraine. It's why you see Finland etc. racing to join after years of non-alignment.
- Jochim 4y ago
  > Given China's cozying up to Russia, I'd think harder about which countries are really on your side when push comes to shove. Why wouldn't China cosy up to Russia? The US has spent much of the last decade tearing apart most of the progress they made over the last five. The Trump administration took an overtly hostile stance to relations. > As a European you're effectively only protected from Russian aggression (or re-invasion, depending on which country you're in) because of NATO, which is substantially led by the US. Germany, Poland, the Baltic states, etc. would be completely up shit creek right now if it wasn't for US military involvement in NATO and arms in Ukraine. It's why you see Finland etc. racing to join after years of non-alignment. Russia can barely deal with Ukraine's largely irregular army. They'd get wiped trying to invade any of the EU states.

by Jochim 4y ago

mikrotikker 4y ago

Chinese expats are frequently "extradited" to face torture via the Chinese police stations set up in foreign countries around the would.

seanmcdirmid 4y ago
Not just Chinese expats, you could totally switch your citizenship to Swedish and still get abducted by the Chinese government in Thailand.
- Jochim 4y ago
  Glass houses: > The administration of President George W. Bush abducted hundreds of "illegal combatants" for U.S. detention, and transported detainees to U.S.-controlled sites as part of an extensive interrogation program that included torture. > Extraordinary rendition continued under the Obama administration, with targets being interrogated and subsequently taken to the U.S. for trial. > A June 2006 report estimated that one hundred people had been kidnapped by the CIA on European Union soil [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extraordinary_rendition https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extraordinary_rendition
  - mikrotikker 4y ago
    Yes that is also bad. You want a cookie?
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
Jochim 4y ago
Has there been some kind of collective amnesia regarding Guantanamo bay or the torture that took place in Iraq and Afghanistan? Did America's campaign of drone strikes simply not occur? In less recent memory we might recall the US "protecting democracy" by providing direct financial, training, operational training, and the occasional assassination to military coups/dictators in Latin America[0]. Allies of the US certainly have it a lot easier but it doesn't mean their leaders communications won't be monitored [1]. China's behaviour is certainly objectionable but as someone that lives in neither country the US has a much more worrying history of foreign interference. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Condor https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Condor [1] https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-24690055 https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-24690055
- mikrotikker 4y ago
  Just because one thing is bad doesnt mean another thing is suddenly rendered not bad. Come on.

thrway2349 4y ago

Given China's cozying up to Russia, I'd think harder about which countries are really on your side when push comes to shove. As a European you're effectively only protected from Russian aggression (or re-invasion, depending on which country you're in) because of NATO, which is substantially led by the US. Germany, Poland, the Baltic states, etc. would be completely up shit creek right now if it wasn't for US military involvement in NATO and arms in Ukraine. It's why you see Finland etc. racing to join after years of non-alignment.

Jochim 4y ago
> Given China's cozying up to Russia, I'd think harder about which countries are really on your side when push comes to shove. Why wouldn't China cosy up to Russia? The US has spent much of the last decade tearing apart most of the progress they made over the last five. The Trump administration took an overtly hostile stance to relations. > As a European you're effectively only protected from Russian aggression (or re-invasion, depending on which country you're in) because of NATO, which is substantially led by the US. Germany, Poland, the Baltic states, etc. would be completely up shit creek right now if it wasn't for US military involvement in NATO and arms in Ukraine. It's why you see Finland etc. racing to join after years of non-alignment. Russia can barely deal with Ukraine's largely irregular army. They'd get wiped trying to invade any of the EU states.