4 ms·

"the far-right government led by Italian Prime Minister Giorgia Meloni" amusing how no leader is ever referred to as far left.

by bruceb 4y ago

deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
cwmma 4y ago
Because they call those socialist or communist governments. The real question is why they call them far-right and not something else.
- ljf 4y ago
  Because fascist is too loaded? Nationalist doesn't really cover the ideals this party represents. I wonder if this party would agree with 'far-right' as a descriptor? Some political movements here in the UK are (sadly) happy to be called far-right and trade on it.
  - burkaman 4y ago
    Meloni does not like being described as far-right, but I think it's an especially sensitive term in Italy as that's the birthplace of fascism.
  - wongarsu 4y ago
    I think Giorgia Meloni isn't that opposed to the term Fascism, as long as it's clear that she doesn't share Mussolini's ideas on race. > Some political movements here in the UK are (sadly) happy to be called far-right and trade on it. Which is good, we should encourage honest labeling of political parties. The bad thing isn't that these parties are far-right or that they call themselves far-right, but that people vote for far-right parties (I would extend the same to far-left, in a European context). That problem won't go away by calling them something else though.
YellowStuDregg 4y ago
I see it frequently used in the context of Podemos or Syriza
burkaman 4y ago
I know you already know this isn't true, but for everyone else, look up coverage of Greek, French, Spanish, or Brazilian politics if you'd like to see some leaders described as far-left.
- bruceb 4y ago
  You don't. Mainstream news outlets almost never describe leaders as far left. You brought up Brazil. Lets look at Brazil as framed by New York Times https://www.nytimes.com/2022/10/30/world/americas/lula-election-results-brazil-bolsonaro.html https://www.nytimes.com/2022/10/30/world/americas/lula-elect... "Brazilians voted out their far-right leader, Jair Bolsonaro, after a single term and replaced him with former President Luiz Inácio Lula da Silva."
  - burkaman 4y ago
    Ok, if you are specifically reading New York Times articles about Lula, I guess you haven't seen him described as far-left. Of course you will find that term in many other NYT articles (https://www.nytimes.com/2019/11/30/world/europe/spain-podemos-iglesias-socialists.html https://www.nytimes.com/2019/11/30/world/europe/spain-podemo..., https://www.nytimes.com/2015/03/11/world/in-spain-rapid-rise-of-leftists-has-a-familiar-ring.html https://www.nytimes.com/2015/03/11/world/in-spain-rapid-rise..., https://www.nytimes.com/2022/03/26/world/europe/melenchon-france-election-left.html https://www.nytimes.com/2022/03/26/world/europe/melenchon-fr..., etc.) I guess I was wrong about Brazil, it seems like Lula's politics can't really accurately be described as far-left based on his leadership during his first presidency.
    - bruceb 4y ago
      Notice in all the articles you linked to none of the leaders are referred to as "far left leader" but in one of the articles (last one) "far right leader" is used. Same with the article it linked to with Bolsonaro and Lulu. Sometimes NYT and other mainstream news will say leader of far-left party, but very very rarely will they say the leader is far left. It seems they use "far right leader" more than 10x they use "far left leader" Far right leader: https://www.nytimes.com/search?dropmab=false&query=%22far%20right%20leader%22&sort=best https://www.nytimes.com/search?dropmab=false&query=%22far%20... Far left leader:https://www.nytimes.com/search?dropmab=false&query=%22far%20left%20leader%22&sort=best https://www.nytimes.com/search?dropmab=false&query=%22far%20... Not sure why you are concluding Lula's politics can't be accurately described as far-left, just because NYT won't print that. Not saying its correct or not but NYT isn't 'gospel' (As yes I do realize the original article doesn't use specifically use "far-right leader" Meloni. The point is many reporters love to tag people they don't like as far right)

"the far-right government led by Italian Prime Minister Giorgia Meloni" amusing how no leader is ever referred to as far left.

by bruceb 4y ago

"the far-right government led by Italian Prime Minister Giorgia Meloni" amusing how no leader is ever referred to as far left.

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

cwmma 4y ago

Because they call those socialist or communist governments. The real question is why they call them far-right and not something else.

ljf 4y ago
Because fascist is too loaded? Nationalist doesn't really cover the ideals this party represents. I wonder if this party would agree with 'far-right' as a descriptor? Some political movements here in the UK are (sadly) happy to be called far-right and trade on it.
- burkaman 4y ago
  Meloni does not like being described as far-right, but I think it's an especially sensitive term in Italy as that's the birthplace of fascism.
- wongarsu 4y ago
  I think Giorgia Meloni isn't that opposed to the term Fascism, as long as it's clear that she doesn't share Mussolini's ideas on race. > Some political movements here in the UK are (sadly) happy to be called far-right and trade on it. Which is good, we should encourage honest labeling of political parties. The bad thing isn't that these parties are far-right or that they call themselves far-right, but that people vote for far-right parties (I would extend the same to far-left, in a European context). That problem won't go away by calling them something else though.

YellowStuDregg 4y ago

I see it frequently used in the context of Podemos or Syriza

burkaman 4y ago

I know you already know this isn't true, but for everyone else, look up coverage of Greek, French, Spanish, or Brazilian politics if you'd like to see some leaders described as far-left.

bruceb 4y ago
You don't. Mainstream news outlets almost never describe leaders as far left. You brought up Brazil. Lets look at Brazil as framed by New York Times https://www.nytimes.com/2022/10/30/world/americas/lula-election-results-brazil-bolsonaro.html https://www.nytimes.com/2022/10/30/world/americas/lula-elect... "Brazilians voted out their far-right leader, Jair Bolsonaro, after a single term and replaced him with former President Luiz Inácio Lula da Silva."
- burkaman 4y ago
  Ok, if you are specifically reading New York Times articles about Lula, I guess you haven't seen him described as far-left. Of course you will find that term in many other NYT articles (https://www.nytimes.com/2019/11/30/world/europe/spain-podemos-iglesias-socialists.html https://www.nytimes.com/2019/11/30/world/europe/spain-podemo..., https://www.nytimes.com/2015/03/11/world/in-spain-rapid-rise-of-leftists-has-a-familiar-ring.html https://www.nytimes.com/2015/03/11/world/in-spain-rapid-rise..., https://www.nytimes.com/2022/03/26/world/europe/melenchon-france-election-left.html https://www.nytimes.com/2022/03/26/world/europe/melenchon-fr..., etc.) I guess I was wrong about Brazil, it seems like Lula's politics can't really accurately be described as far-left based on his leadership during his first presidency.
  - bruceb 4y ago
    Notice in all the articles you linked to none of the leaders are referred to as "far left leader" but in one of the articles (last one) "far right leader" is used. Same with the article it linked to with Bolsonaro and Lulu. Sometimes NYT and other mainstream news will say leader of far-left party, but very very rarely will they say the leader is far left. It seems they use "far right leader" more than 10x they use "far left leader" Far right leader: https://www.nytimes.com/search?dropmab=false&query=%22far%20right%20leader%22&sort=best https://www.nytimes.com/search?dropmab=false&query=%22far%20... Far left leader:https://www.nytimes.com/search?dropmab=false&query=%22far%20left%20leader%22&sort=best https://www.nytimes.com/search?dropmab=false&query=%22far%20... Not sure why you are concluding Lula's politics can't be accurately described as far-left, just because NYT won't print that. Not saying its correct or not but NYT isn't 'gospel' (As yes I do realize the original article doesn't use specifically use "far-right leader" Meloni. The point is many reporters love to tag people they don't like as far right)