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I do not know why he did not get out years ago. Why these powerfully rich men is staying in China is beyond me. When Xi started the process to increase his te

by jmclnx 4y ago

I do not know why he did not get out years ago. Why these powerfully rich men is staying in China is beyond me. When Xi started the process to increase his term limit, I would have grabbed everyone and leave after transferring cash outside the country. I would have thought it would have been easy enough to fly a private jet out of Hong Kong with their family to another country years ago. Now I wonder if they are even allowed to fly on private jets these days.

Mountain_Skies 4y ago
Perhaps he loves the Chinese nation even if he doesn't love the Chinese government. Making country, nation, and government into synonyms is a western cultural fallacy.
- nicolas_t 4y ago
  It's also very typical of a lot of the chinese discourse of china. "What you criticise the CCP, you're not patriotic." is a typical sentiment expressed there. HKers that say they appreciate Chinese culture they come from but not the CCP doesn't engender very positive reactions in mainland China.
- RobotToaster 4y ago
  Worth noting that Jack Ma is a member of the CPC.
  - localplume 4y ago
    [dead]
  - crop_rotation 4y ago
    Would a high ranking CEO even have a choice in that matter?
    - dathinab 4y ago
      exactly, they would not have a choice or more precise they would never have had a chance to reach where they did without becoming a party member through being a party member in the end isn't the same as being a politician of the party or working for them (just saying because some people seem to not be aware about this)
- enedil 4y ago
  And what? Even if he loves Chinese nation, why should he stay? I don't thing parent commenter conflated the two.
  - dathinab 4y ago
    It's the place you where born at. People did went much further then bowing to their Governments oppression in a way which still leaves them wealth to be able to live at home.
nicolas_t 4y ago
Transferring cash outside China has never been a super easy thing and has only become harder. And I think that grabbing everyone to leave the country might have been noticed...
- harpiaharpyja 4y ago
  Really this just supports GP's assertion. You would have had better chances if you started early.
londons_explore 4y ago
China has a lot of ways to keep control of its citizens even outside the country. In general, you can't give up chinese citizenship (nor can you gain it). Having said that, fleeing isn't the only option. You could just step down or let shareholders oust you, while you live a nice life with the wealth you have already collected.
- canjobear 4y ago
  > In general, you can't give up chinese citizenship (nor can you gain it). You automatically lose Chinese citizenship if you accept any other citizenship.
  - dathinab 4y ago
    on paper yes but oversimplified from Chinese POV it's like they still having all the authority over you as a citizen but you having forsaken all the rights you have as one
paxys 4y ago
For decades now the rich have stayed above China's authoritarian system, and Ma thought he would have the same luxury. Xi made clear that there are new rules now.
brap 4y ago
Perhaps only people with too much to lose can become successful in China, by design? i.e, "we'll let you succeed - but only if we have enough leverage to control you". Think family, reputation, etc.
eloff 4y ago
He did get out. He went back. If he did that of his own free will is another question. China has reach well outside its borders. They were getting to activists in Vancouver, Canada. They’re also happy to lean on your relatives who stay behind. Totalitarian governments are the devil. https://www.ctvnews.ca/canada/hong-kongers-say-they-re-being-targeted-by-chinese-agents-on-canadian-soil-1.5390456?cache=yes%2F7.331825 https://www.ctvnews.ca/canada/hong-kongers-say-they-re-being...
- kridsdale1 4y ago
  [flagged]
- nathancahill 4y ago
  Might as well be Vancouver, China, looking at the percentage of real estate owned.
  - eloff 4y ago
    I thought it was less than 5%, what’s the numbers on that?
mcdonje 4y ago
I don't know why all the rich people in the US didn't leave when they broke up Standard Oil or Bell. Or when FDR got a third term. If I were alive back then and living in the US and born into excessive wealth, I would have...
eunos 4y ago
His wealth is from his business practice in China, not something that can be easily copied. If he's out of China, then he's out of the game, that's it.
dathinab 4y ago
> I do not know why he did not get out years ago. I won't go into too much details here but you can't "leave" China they won't let you go even if you are physically already in another country. Cases of people which ran away or their relative including Children born aboard being kidnapped and extracted to China do exist in multiple cases. Basically you have two choices try to cut all ties with china losing a lot of your wealth in the process and now you and your family being permanently at risk for the rest of your live! Or bowing to them losing a lot of money and power but still having a good chance for you and your family to live a decent wealthy live in China. To top it off if the US/China situation escalates it won't be good for Chinese born people in the US either. E.g. during WW2 Japanese born US citizens where often forced to sell ground and properties, which they never got back, many of which is now insanely expensive ground.

by jmclnx 4y ago

Mountain_Skies 4y ago

Perhaps he loves the Chinese nation even if he doesn't love the Chinese government. Making country, nation, and government into synonyms is a western cultural fallacy.

nicolas_t 4y ago
It's also very typical of a lot of the chinese discourse of china. "What you criticise the CCP, you're not patriotic." is a typical sentiment expressed there. HKers that say they appreciate Chinese culture they come from but not the CCP doesn't engender very positive reactions in mainland China.
RobotToaster 4y ago
Worth noting that Jack Ma is a member of the CPC.
- localplume 4y ago
  [dead]
- crop_rotation 4y ago
  Would a high ranking CEO even have a choice in that matter?
  - dathinab 4y ago
    exactly, they would not have a choice or more precise they would never have had a chance to reach where they did without becoming a party member through being a party member in the end isn't the same as being a politician of the party or working for them (just saying because some people seem to not be aware about this)
enedil 4y ago
And what? Even if he loves Chinese nation, why should he stay? I don't thing parent commenter conflated the two.
- dathinab 4y ago
  It's the place you where born at. People did went much further then bowing to their Governments oppression in a way which still leaves them wealth to be able to live at home.

nicolas_t 4y ago

Transferring cash outside China has never been a super easy thing and has only become harder. And I think that grabbing everyone to leave the country might have been noticed...

harpiaharpyja 4y ago
Really this just supports GP's assertion. You would have had better chances if you started early.

londons_explore 4y ago

China has a lot of ways to keep control of its citizens even outside the country. In general, you can't give up chinese citizenship (nor can you gain it). Having said that, fleeing isn't the only option. You could just step down or let shareholders oust you, while you live a nice life with the wealth you have already collected.

canjobear 4y ago
> In general, you can't give up chinese citizenship (nor can you gain it). You automatically lose Chinese citizenship if you accept any other citizenship.
- dathinab 4y ago
  on paper yes but oversimplified from Chinese POV it's like they still having all the authority over you as a citizen but you having forsaken all the rights you have as one

paxys 4y ago

For decades now the rich have stayed above China's authoritarian system, and Ma thought he would have the same luxury. Xi made clear that there are new rules now.

brap 4y ago

Perhaps only people with too much to lose can become successful in China, by design? i.e, "we'll let you succeed - but only if we have enough leverage to control you". Think family, reputation, etc.

eloff 4y ago

He did get out. He went back. If he did that of his own free will is another question. China has reach well outside its borders. They were getting to activists in Vancouver, Canada. They’re also happy to lean on your relatives who stay behind. Totalitarian governments are the devil. https://www.ctvnews.ca/canada/hong-kongers-say-they-re-being-targeted-by-chinese-agents-on-canadian-soil-1.5390456?cache=yes%2F7.331825 https://www.ctvnews.ca/canada/hong-kongers-say-they-re-being...

kridsdale1 4y ago
[flagged]
nathancahill 4y ago
Might as well be Vancouver, China, looking at the percentage of real estate owned.
- eloff 4y ago
  I thought it was less than 5%, what’s the numbers on that?

mcdonje 4y ago

I don't know why all the rich people in the US didn't leave when they broke up Standard Oil or Bell. Or when FDR got a third term. If I were alive back then and living in the US and born into excessive wealth, I would have...

eunos 4y ago

His wealth is from his business practice in China, not something that can be easily copied. If he's out of China, then he's out of the game, that's it.

dathinab 4y ago

> I do not know why he did not get out years ago. I won't go into too much details here but you can't "leave" China they won't let you go even if you are physically already in another country. Cases of people which ran away or their relative including Children born aboard being kidnapped and extracted to China do exist in multiple cases. Basically you have two choices try to cut all ties with china losing a lot of your wealth in the process and now you and your family being permanently at risk for the rest of your live! Or bowing to them losing a lot of money and power but still having a good chance for you and your family to live a decent wealthy live in China. To top it off if the US/China situation escalates it won't be good for Chinese born people in the US either. E.g. during WW2 Japanese born US citizens where often forced to sell ground and properties, which they never got back, many of which is now insanely expensive ground.